Reason #5284 why Dub >>>> Sub

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Jul 5, 2009
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#41
I think this forum had that type of bullying when nangbaby was around. She kinda liked the dub, but was heavily criticized by MissDream/Elly
It was interesting to see this Nangbaby trolling everyone she came into contact that time. At least with MS-14 had some form of moral compass despite his anti-social behavior. One could say the latter was highly selective in his trollish pursuits.
 

RebelOfDaNew

Luna Crescens
Jul 28, 2022
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#42
You can get into trouble in some of the Discord servers too. You'll meet all different types of bullies depending on the type of narcissist who they are or who they hang with.
I personally don't know about bullies (my only bully is Human Resources), but certain people are way too emotional when it comes to....not just cartoons but anything in life that doesn't directly affect them.. I'm guilty of that too but in response to others. If you're Kotono or related to her, I could understand you taking offense when I go "Dub >>>> Sub"--but I don't care what you like as long as you're intelligent or open-minded. I'm watching the sub as I video edit right now -- Beware of the Clock of Confusion

I could've mentioned that JP Hotaru at the start of this video screams the exact same way, twice in a row. There's really no excuse for it. But then they'd call me a nitpicker, like the one Redditor did when I explained myself at his request

It's always "nitpicking" when it's something you like (aka how Japanese people sound in cartoons). But the dub? Nah, that's "laughable" and "full of flaws/memes" and all that jazz. Notice the American brain guy still hasn't told me why my view is stereotypical or what makes the Japanese so much better. Because...no reason, just mad that I criticized a fan translation that he likes. And that's sad. I would've loved an actual discussion delving into the nuances of both versions.

I agree she did sound too old and unnatural but I wouldn't go as far as saying she sounded like a granny. She got way better by mid-S and really outshone Sheh when it came to episode 125.
You're referring to this

https://www.reddit.com/r/sailormoon/comments/wbcq3t
and I agree. The big issue is Linda was best with serious characters imo (including beyond SM), and Serena wasn't usually this serious due to Terri/Linda's vibratoing. But serious Linda is the "high schooler" Serena I always wanted to hear. TBH Terri was of course better overall, but Linda might've been even better than Terri if she'd gone 2nd instead

nangbaby

I didn’t like CWI dub in S and SuperS because Serena’s voice sounded way too old for her age. It was basically Granny Moon to me.
I haven't heard that name since I thought Sailor Moon was named after the Williams sisters

And likewise, I could say that Kotono sounds like a grown woman trying to squeaky like a caricature of a whiny kid.... Cause that was actually her voice directing. Japanese kids her age don't sound anything like that. I've read a few people who were turned off by that pretend childishness. I'd rather Tracey any day than Kotono or Hinata.. But if anyone prefers Kotono, she nails that voice she was told to give, and I completely understand why anyone'd love her take the most
 

Masquerade

Solaris Luna
Nov 22, 2016
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#43
No, sorry.
Cyprine's VA is indeed a good fit, but everyone else sounds atrocious and the dialogue insertion is indeed unnecessary. It's American like @sapphire91 said. And that's not bigotry. It's a fact mainstream Hollywood productions have a lot of talking all the time. Just like Japanese Sailor Moon is cheesy and camp like most tokusatsu shows.
 
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Masquerade

Solaris Luna
Nov 22, 2016
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#44
Okay, I'm wondering what happened to this forum where people who liked or defended any aspect of the dub were thrown into the pit.
The international anime community once had a trend of "eew dub is bad sub rules", but it's long gone at this point. This wasn't exclusive to the US.
 

Rika-Chicchi

Staff member
Site Admin
May 7, 2009
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#45
Funny thing if you mean me as well, I heard similar from Redditors (when I insulted Reddit on Reddit) and you know, I really shouldn't be making distinctions cause it's all the same case here, a ton of different people on specialized forums, dedicated to a topic they care about.

What will forever not make sense to me however is people getting confrontative over who prefers whatever version of a cartoon. Eg, got negged there for posting the same transcript you see in the first post here. Then another dude rightfully told me to "always agree".

So people there even, they know what's up. If you understand both languages and feel I made a transcription error then sure. But otherwise, I'm getting downvoted for translating the thing and having a preference. It's obviously not everybody, just like it's obviously not every American though, and it's understandable people would tie their identities into Reddit like I do with being an American......though I really shouldn't :minako:
If you think a post is offensive, just report it & don't respond to it. :wink:
 
Aug 18, 2022
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#46
It's American like @sapphire91 said. And that's not bigotry. It's a fact mainstream Hollywood productions have a lot of talking all the time. Just like Japanese Sailor Moon is cheesy and camp like most tokusatsu shows.
The Canadian script adapters were almost definitely responsible for inserting the extra dialogue but go off I guess.

Like I'm not commenting on/defending the scene itself or the practice of adding in dialogue in general (since yeah it's unnecessary like 99% of the time), but I think rather than it being a "Hollywood"-specific thing, it's more an issue of executives for kids' shows in North America collectively having negative views about what children will want to pay attention to. I think movies/shows aimed at adults are much more likely to make use of silence or atmospheric scenes and that there's more variance across the mediums than for stuff seen as being exclusively for kids.

And I think the above is a problem, yeah, but I just don't get the insistence on framing something like this as an exclusively "American" issue when Canadian media is extremely similar in this aspect and we actually know who was most directly involved with the writing of the first English Sailor Moon dubs (hint: not Americans). I'm not going so far as calling it "bigotry," but it's definitely annoying and even unfair to have the flaws of a decades-old dub made by people with little experience or familiarity with working on anime as somehow being reflective of an entire population's inherent values. Especially when it was a different country that arguably had the greatest direct involvement in the dubbing process anyway.

I guess someone could say that it's actually Cloverway's fault for not putting more money/effort into supervising the dub's production and that it's therefore all "America's" fault, but you could similarly turn it around and say that Toei should have been more hands-on with its U.S. licensors etc. re: the treatment of Sailor Moon and then it'd never really end.
 
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RebelOfDaNew

Luna Crescens
Jul 28, 2022
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#47
No, sorry.
Cyprine's VA is indeed a good fit, but everyone else sounds atrocious and the dialogue insertion is indeed unnecessary. It's American like @sapphire91 said. And that's not bigotry. It's a fact mainstream Hollywood productions have a lot of talking all the time. Just like Japanese Sailor Moon is cheesy and camp like most tokusatsu shows.
It very much is bigotry to say someone's attention span is 30 seconds because they're American. When 1st of all the video is longer than that and 2nd, my attention span's about 45 seconds. He still hasn't responded despite liking your post. I won't say anything else about it, but it's pretty obvious who'd be quietly downvoting every positive dub comment if this were Reddit. Like @Sailor Cynic said, the thing isn't even American. But we all know the guy didn't care about being factual.

Besides that, what defines "unnecessary"? Some people on Reddit admitted the extra dub lines were better here. Some people before this post said Cyprine spoke too fast. It's all relative. What I'd like to know is why you think the extra lines are a detraction. How do Rini and Hotaru sound "atrocious"--especially Rini who's one of the few characters people almost universally say "sounds better in the dub".

If you think a post is offensive, just report it & don't respond to it. :wink:
Here, no. On Reddit, only offensive to common sense. I sadly can't report those.
 
Jun 6, 2006
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#48
FYI - Cyprine was voiced by Naomi Emmerson, who is also fluent in French. I wonder she was able to receive better direction from Nicole Thiault than the non-French speaking actors?

She was really great and I wish they would've used her more. She could’ve made a great Eudial. I could also see her voicing Lead Crow.
 

RebelOfDaNew

Luna Crescens
Jul 28, 2022
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#49
FYI - Cyprine was voiced by Naomi Emmerson, who is also fluent in French. I wonder she was able to receive better direction from Nicole Thiault than the non-French speaking actors?

She was really great and I wish they would've used her more. She could’ve made a great Eudial. I could also see her voicing Lead Crow.
Would that mean the director actually tried harder with her?
 

Masquerade

Solaris Luna
Nov 22, 2016
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#50
It very much is bigotry to say someone's attention span is 30 seconds because they're American. When 1st of all the video is longer than that and 2nd, my attention span's about 45 seconds. He still hasn't responded despite liking your post. I won't say anything else about it, but it's pretty obvious who'd be quietly downvoting every positive dub comment if this were Reddit. Like @Sailor Cynic said, the thing isn't even American. But we all know the guy didn't care about being factual.

Besides that, what defines "unnecessary"? Some people on Reddit admitted the extra dub lines were better here. Some people before this post said Cyprine spoke too fast. It's all relative. What I'd like to know is why you think the extra lines are a detraction. How do Rini and Hotaru sound "atrocious"--especially Rini who's one of the few characters people almost universally say "sounds better in the dub".


Here, no. On Reddit, only offensive to common sense. I sadly can't report those.
The Scouts commenting what's happening onscreen isn't necessary because we are seeing it. And they're trying to be discreet and not get Cyprine's attention, so it doesn't even make sense for Jupiter to talk that loud.
I didn't mean Rini, but Hotaru's screaming is laughable and sounds fandubbish just like a lot of the CWi dub.
 

RebelOfDaNew

Luna Crescens
Jul 28, 2022
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#51
The Scouts commenting what's happening onscreen isn't necessary because we are seeing it. And they're trying to be discreet and not get Cyprine's attention, so it doesn't even make sense for Jupiter to talk that loud.
I didn't mean Rini, but Hotaru's screaming is laughable and sounds fandubbish just like a lot of the CWi dub.
On the one hand, I get what you mean about our seeing it. On the other, people comment on what they see all the time. They apparently, in both versions, had no idea she was going to do that. They'd never seen that level of power before...because it's friggin Cyprine. To me, the issue is Mercury sounds like she doesn't care. But otherwise, if a guy making a speech on a rooftop suddenly jumps off and waves back up at everyone, a few in the crowd are going to espouse what he just did, with their mouths wide open.

Hotaru's voice could be better, for sure. Actually, that and Serena's yell stuck out to me as sore points in this scene. I'd still give it a mark above repeating the exact same scream twice in a row, followed by empty silence (not even Chibiusa continuing to panic), or do you think that was all on purpose?

--After rewatching, Jupiter was definitely not shouting. Only Cyprine was. Besides, we don't know the acoustics of the room to say whether Cyprine would've heard her. We don't even know whether Jupiter and Mercury were really talking out loud as opposed to thinking those lines.
 
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Rika-Chicchi

Staff member
Site Admin
May 7, 2009
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#52
If you think a post is offensive, just report it & don't respond to it. :wink:
Here, no. On Reddit, only offensive to common sense. I sadly can't report those.
Of course, you're not obliged to report a post you think is offensive, but if you reply to that post & someone report that your reply is offensive, then an admin may take action on it, depending on whether that report is justified. So if you choose not to report the post, I'd suggest you to just ignore it. :)
 
Feb 10, 2009
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#53
Okay, I'm wondering what happened to this forum where people who liked or defended any aspect of the dub were thrown into the pit.

Like, you're being largely reasonable and acknowledging there are positive and negatives instead of bashing to bash and disagreeing respectfully.

I'm not complaining. Just...puzzled and waiting for the other shoe to drop.
I'm glad times have changed because there was often a time where I was bashed and probably threatened with banning for using the characters DiC names.