When is "Usagi" No Longer "Usagi"?

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Apr 20, 2012
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#21
Hadn't considered this interpretation before. But it makes me look at a moment in Act 55 in an entirely different way. A crying Ikuko tells Kenji: "It's so odd...I just...had a feeling Usagi's never coming home again..." (Kodansha translation) My original interpretation of that line wasn't literal. I thought she was picking up on the gravitas of Usagi's situation, even if she's in the dark on the specifics. But maybe a literal reading was intended.
 

MariaTenebre

Lumen Cinereum
Jul 22, 2009
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#23
I don't think they're asking different questions. Naoko's writing style is pretty consistent, and one of its trademarks is that it tends to be repetitive. Having characters ask or say the same thing back-to-back is fairly common. Also, it's Usagi who's always the "princess." Never in Dream or Stars do the Quartet call Chibiusa "princess," so why start now? If Chibiusa were whom Naoko meant, she's had three opportunities now to make that clear by tweaking the dialog or adding an image of Chibiusa to the scene. That's not what she's done. You can interpret the scene how you want, that's fine, but I think the likeliest reading is that the princess here is Usagi, and it's she (and by extension, everyone else) who goes to the 30th century. I mean, we see Crystal Tokyo when Usagi and Mamoru wake up in their giant bed. (Of course, that could just be a glimpse of the dream Usagi says she had; it's really not clear. But certainly that's not her bedroom or Mamoru's apartment they're in, so who knows. *Some* time has clearly passed, it's just not clear how much or when.) She's pregnant with Chibiusa. When she saw Chibiusa in the Galaxy Cauldron, Chibiusa said, "I'll see you in the 30th Century!" If Usagi and company went back to 199X Tokyo, she wouldn't need to wait 900+ years to see Chibiusa. It doesn't add up to me. I mean, it's super weird either way, but I'm gonna go with what I think is the safest bet here.
Naoko's writing style isn't always consistent and plenty of times Chibiusa is referred to as the Princess. Even if they haven't referred to Chibiusa as their princess yet the Sailor Quartet considers her so and that is why they swore to be her protectors. Also even in the translated version it refers to the person being sent back to the 30th Century as she in the singular and this was approved by Kodansha so again this probably just refers to Chibiusa. Also Chibiusa saying she will see her soon in the 30th century dosen't necessarily mean immediately and since they have long life spans soon to them might not be soon to us but rather refers that she will see her daughter again when she becomes the Queen. I do not think that your interpretation is right atleast that is my opinion.
 
Mar 8, 2012
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#24
Also even in the translated version it refers to the person being sent back to the 30th Century as she in the singular and this was approved by Kodansha so again this probably just refers to Chibiusa.
The Tokyopop translation uses the plural "they." The Spanish translation also uses the plural. The Portuguese translation seems to use the singular, however. Can anyone check and compare any of the other translations?
 

SailorSpySedna

Lumen Cinereum
May 18, 2016
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#25
Lambda Power could be anything. It's the ability to maintain the static nature of the cosmos (or something to that effect) according to Sailor Cosmos, but that actually means is anyone's guess.

It sounds like they just went to the future to continue their lives, rather than go back to 199X Tokyo.
But then what happened with Usagi's family and friends and such?

Hadn't considered this interpretation before. But it makes me look at a moment in Act 55 in an entirely different way. A crying Ikuko tells Kenji: "It's so odd...I just...had a feeling Usagi's never coming home again..." (Kodansha translation) My original interpretation of that line wasn't literal. I thought she was picking up on the gravitas of Usagi's situation, even if she's in the dark on the specifics. But maybe a literal reading was intended.
That could be the case. Crystal might change it to Kenji or Shingo saying it though, considering Ikuko's recent VA passed away nearly four years back (RIP Yūko Mizutani :cry:)...
 

Rika-Chicchi

Staff member
Site Admin
May 7, 2009
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#26
If the manga's universe were reset at the end like PGSM, no such problem would've occurred - Usagi would've never existed in the 20th century at all. lol

(If that reset part in the PGSM script was conceived by Takeuchi herself & not by the scriptwriter, the former might've already been aware of that problem in the manga by that time.)
 

Onuzim Ima

Luna Crescens
Aug 11, 2010
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#27
Did :usagi: ever really change? Letters to her daughter from the Future and :chibiusa:'s Announcements made pretty clear that even then - underneath all the Glamour and Upbringing as a queen and ruler - she can still be quite lazy, gluttonous (snatching away Chibs' sweets) and a crybaby and her Handwriting is still a Crying Shame. Let's all hope Ikukko and all the Teachers & Servants didn't need to be confined to a Nuthouse after one Thousand years of trying to teach her proper manners and behavior... :mischief:
 
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Rika-Chicchi

Staff member
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May 7, 2009
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#28
Did :usagi: ever really change? Letters to her daughter from the Future and :chibiusa:'s Announcements made pretty clear that even then - underneath all the Glamour and Upbringing as a queen and ruler - she can still be quite lazy, gluttonous (snatching away Chibs' sweets) and a crybaby and her Handwriting is still a Crying Shame.
NQS might deliberately write the letters w/o using any kanji because her daughter couldn't read any. :wink:
 

FloraKiraraHime

Lumen Cinereum
May 1, 2015
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#30
That could be the case. Crystal might change it to Kenji or Shingo saying it though, considering Ikuko's recent VA passed away nearly four years back (RIP Yūko Mizutani :cry:)...
If Shingo said that line, it'd be something like "Huh, this is so weird. I can't help but realize how my dumb bunny of an older sister appears to be acting odd."
 

GalX3

Luna Crescens
Nov 13, 2018
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#31
I'm really enjoying this thread. I'm not up to reading act 60 yet and even if I was I doubt I could translate it any better. I did remove the shrink wrap off my copy and take a sneak peak though. There is so much more there than what I expected, I knew basically about the galaxy cauldron from Sera-Myu but there is so much extra in the manga. I am ecstatic and can't wait to get up to this part. And there are even 2 bonus mini-stories at the end. I'm in heaven! I've always worried about Sailor Moon's family and what happened to them. I hoped (foolishly it seems) that somehow they might have had their lives prolonged and lived happily to a ripe old age in the burbs of Crystal Tokyo, or at least grew old happily with Usagi. The thought they were cast aside like leftover narrative rubbish so Sailor Moon can continue her quest in the 30th century... that makes me pretty mad... unforgivable! But if you can send your daughter back in time to make some friends perhaps you can send yourself back in time to visit your long gone family. Maybe Usagi did so and regaled her family with stories from the future. I would like to think so.
(I get all teary eyed when I write this stuff... /me goes to listen to Moonbow)
 
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Apr 16, 2013
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#33
If NQS decided to send her daughter in the past to have friends and an ordinary family life (among the Tsukino), it is because she cut ties with her parents. She has embraced her royal destiny and therefore has no connection with her family (I think).

Chibiusa does not seem to know her grandparents when you look closer, it is brand new for her these people unlike the others.
I don't think the Tsukino are dead either.
 

SailorSpySedna

Lumen Cinereum
May 18, 2016
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#34
I'm really enjoying this thread. I'm not up to reading act 60 yet and even if I was I doubt I could translate it any better. I did remove the shrink wrap off my copy and take a sneak peak though. There is so much more there than what I expected, I knew basically about the galaxy cauldron from Sera-Myu but there is so much extra in the manga. I am ecstatic and can't wait to get up to this part. And there are even 2 bonus mini-stories at the end. I'm in heaven! I've always worried about Sailor Moon's family and what happened to them. I hoped (foolishly it seems) that somehow they might have had their lives prolonged and lived happily to a ripe old age in the burbs of Crystal Tokyo, or at least grew old happily with Usagi. The thought they were cast aside like leftover narrative rubbish so Sailor Moon can continue her quest in the 30th century... that makes me pretty mad... unforgivable! But if you can send your daughter back in time to make some friends perhaps you can send yourself back in time to visit your long gone family. Maybe Usagi did so and regaled her family with stories from the future. I would like to think so.
(I get all teary eyed when I write this stuff... /me goes to listen to Moonbow)
That's crazy if they were tossed aside; I've seen some people complain about the ending of season 1 of the original anime when the Sailors lost their memories, but at least they went back to their families and still had happy lives (besides the fact they got their memories back in episodes 47 and 48).
 

imaginationgirl

Lumen Cinereum
Aug 16, 2014
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#35
In the final chapter of the manga, the first thing Sailor Cosmos says is:

コルドロンに散っていったセーラー戦士たちのセーラークリスタルが もとどおりの姿をとりもどし 自分たちの星へ 還ってゆくのよ​
All of the Sailor Guardians' Sailor Crystals, now scattering around the Cauldron, will get back the forms they had before and return home to their own stars.
まだみんなコルドロンから生まれたばかりのスターシードだけど それぞれの星にたどりつくころには成長してもとの姿にもどっているでしょう​
For now, everyone is still only a newborn star seed emerging from the Cauldron, but once they each have finally made their way back to their star, they will have grown up and returned to their original form.​

She then assuages the Sailor Quartet's fears that Sailor Moon is no more by telling them:

(Original Serialization Text)
あなたたちの プリンセスも みんなと同じようにあのラムダ・パワーで 再生されました​
Your princess, along with everyone else, has been reincarnated thanks to Lambda Power.
いまごろはあの光の渦の中 三十世紀へ無事に還りつくことでしょう​
By now, this whirlpool of light should have led them safely to the 30th Century.
(Tankoban Text)
安心なさい あなたがたのプリンセスもほかの戦士たちと同じように あのラムダ・パワーで再生されました​
Rest assured, your princess, along with all the other guardians, has been reincarnated thanks to Lambda Power.
いずれあの光の流れにのり 三十世紀へ無事に還りつくことでしょう​
Eventually, this river of light should lead them safely to the 30th Century.

In other words, Usagi and company do not return to 20th century Tokyo and their regular lives as I'd always thought; they're sent straight to the 30th Century and arrive there in their recognizable teenage/young adult bodies.

This means that history has changed: In the BMC arc, King Endymion said Usagi became Neo Queen Serenity when she was 22, which is when she had Chibiusa and stopped aging. Since the manga is set contemporaneously, Usagi, who was 14 in 1992, would have turned 22 in the year 2000. Since Chibiusa is 900, this means the 30th Century we see is the year 2900, and Neo Queen Serenity is 922 years old (78 years shy of the end of her allegedly-but-most-likely-retconned 1000 year lifespan).

But after Eternal Sailor Moon sacrificed her life in her battle against Chaos and melted into the Galaxy Cauldron along with everyone else, it seems that history has been resigned to a different timeline (even though that would seem to complicate Sailor Cosmos's situation even more): Usagi may still become queen at "22", but she will now be "22" in the year 2900 instead of the year 2000. Not only that, but since she has arrived in the 30th Century newly reborn in her familiar form, she is no longer the daughter of Ikuko and Kenji, sister of Shingo. The other Sailors and Mamoru are likewise no longer members of their former families. All of their friends - Naru, Umino, Motoki - are all long dead, never knowing what became of their friends.

This all brings me to my point: If she is no longer Kenji and Ikuko's daughter, is "Usagi" really still "Usagi"? In the same way Princess Serenity is no more, it would appear Usagi is also no more (even if she still uses that name); only Neo Queen Serenity remains.
I thought originally they were referring to Chibiusa. In that context, I will consider Usagi still Usagi.I don't think it matters if they were in the future, or not .Usagi soul is the same no matter what.
 

Rachael

Luna Nova
Jun 2, 2011
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#36
Yeah, I agree with the others. Ceres is curious about whether or not Sailor Moon is gone, but the eventual conclusion is that Chibiusa will no longer exist if Sailor Moon is dead. Sailor Moon would not be the "princess" to Ceres and the others; she would be the "Queen." The manga states many times that Chibiusa is the Princess of Crystal Tokyo, and Sailor Moon is Neo-Queen Serenity.

Also, although Usagi loves her friends and Mamoru more than anyone else, she cherishes her normal life on the earth and loves her family and non-Guardian friends. It feels very out-of-character for her to just abandon them and head towards a future when they're all dead so she can chill with her besties and boyfriends for a millennium without having to think about her non-magical friends and family. Everyone was so excited about being in high school, even if it's just normal, everyday stuff (see: Michiru getting all excited in the first chapter of Stars), so it makes no sense for them to throw it all away.

I felt that "starting a new star's history" meant more like...starting her whole life over again, maybe the entire galaxy all over again. Kind of like what Sailor Cosmos was going to do, actually--go back in history and make the "right" choice. Usagi had the option to start everything over, and maybe hope that this time, nobody would have to suffer or die.

But she didn't. She said, "We want to remain as we are. No matter how difficult, I want to live THIS life." I believe she was referring to her life as it had been: Going back to the same timeline, going shopping with her friends, doing homework together, eating dinner with her family, even if it means she'll have to keep taking on bad guys who want to take away the life that she's worked so hard to build with everyone. And the other girls, and Mamoru, all feel the same. The life they've been living, the life they'll continue living, in all its beautiful, messed-up glory, is still worth it.

That's why Eternal Sailor Moon is Sailor Cosmos' "true form." Because she still has hope. Because she's not going to give up.
 
Apr 16, 2013
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#37
Yeah, I agree with the others. Ceres is curious about whether or not Sailor Moon is gone, but the eventual conclusion is that Chibiusa will no longer exist if Sailor Moon is dead. Sailor Moon would not be the "princess" to Ceres and the others; she would be the "Queen." The manga states many times that Chibiusa is the Princess of Crystal Tokyo, and Sailor Moon is Neo-Queen Serenity.
They are in the past. So Usagi = Princess. They adapt the royal status according to the time.