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 Post subject: Re: Licensing rights/issues finally explained via Mexico
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:14 am 
Planeta
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PurpleWarrior13 wrote:

Could a fluent Spanish speaker do us all a favor and translate the article? I have a hard time comprehending this translation (Google Translation is notorious for this)...




Fluency in Spanish wont do a damn thing since its in italian XD

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 Post subject: Re: Licensing rights/issues finally explained via Mexico
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:58 am 
Lumen Cinereum
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Yen-sama wrote:
PurpleWarrior13 wrote:

Could a fluent Spanish speaker do us all a favor and translate the article? I have a hard time comprehending this translation (Google Translation is notorious for this)...




Fluency in Spanish wont do a jolly good thing since its in italian XD


the Italian article links Sailor Moon Obsession as its source. SMO used the podcast in Spanish as their source. Transcription and translations inc :D


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 Post subject: Re: Licensing rights/issues finally explained via Mexico
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:23 am 
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Vilhem wrote:
Yen-sama wrote:
PurpleWarrior13 wrote:

Could a fluent Spanish speaker do us all a favor and translate the article? I have a hard time comprehending this translation (Google Translation is notorious for this)...




Fluency in Spanish wont do a jolly good thing since its in italian XD


the Italian article links Sailor Moon Obsession as its source. SMO used the podcast in Spanish as their source. Transcription and translations inc :D


Oh okay! Sorz!

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 Post subject: Re: Licensing rights/issues finally explained via Mexico
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:24 am 
Lumen Cinereum
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Since this podcast is over an hour long, I'll be translating in bits and pieces. Here's the first ten minutes of the podcast, and also what's written on the page of the podcast. :D

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Podcast: Plan B: Talk Box Mercury

Invited Guest: Fernando Sanz: Part of the Capital 8 staff and the Official Sailor Moon Fan Club President for Mexico and Latin America. Fernando “Usagifer” Sanz is one of the important people behind the Talk Box series project based on Naoko Takeuchi’s work. Today, Fernando will tell us in detail everything about the upcoming Talk Box Mercury, how they came to an agreement with Toei, the difficulty in negotiating with Takeuchi herself, and an exclusive: what will happen with the Spanish language version of Princess Moon. Who will finally be the singer?

[Introduction of Fernando Sanz and how Capital 8 works as distributors for anime]

Sanz mentions that the staff at Capital 8 are also anime fans, so they know what the fans would like on their DVD releases
Towers Entertainment: licenses and dubs the shows
Capital 8: Distributor

Licensing:
Sanz: It’s a very long process. The public wouldn’t believe just how long it takes working on these long negotiations. For example, with Sailor Moon, it was a process of 2 years before we acquired the license, to be able to come to an agreement to release the series, which happened more or less the same with “los Caballeros del Zodiaco [Saint Seiya]”.

I think the power of conviction that we sometimes have as people and as businesses is important, in that the Japanese people, the executives, will like you. Then, you come to them with your proposition; what you want to do, how you want to do it, and…you have to convince them, you have to sell your idea ver well for them to release the license. It’s not easy; you have to negotiate for a long time, you have to sell very well what you intend to do so they can agree and release the license. The same thing happens with “los Caballeros” [talks about Saint Seiya licensing process which is just as difficult to get as Sailor Moon]

Sailor Moon took a lot of effort, mainly because Naoko Takeuchi, well, I’m sorry Sailor Scouts, but she is who owns 100% of the rights to Sailor Moon. She is the one who has the final say so on whether or not the license will be released to you.

PlanB: Basically, if she likes the products, she says “Sure, go ahead”, but if not, “No” and that’s it.

Sanz: You have to come with a set idea on how you want to exploit the franchise, exploit her product, and she consults, obviously, with people at Toei, but she is the one who decides if she likes the idea of how you’re going to exploit the Sailor Moon franchise. And well, the license did take some time. It’s been a few months since the remastered DVDS were released over in Japan, and obviously, we weren’t going to have them before the Japanese. So because of that, it took a bit longer to release the final product, and so that we could have the series remastered, because it’s very different than the one that came out a couple of years ago on some American DVDS [talks about ADV’s releases, and how the company no longer exists]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

More inc in subsequent posts :D


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 Post subject: Re: Licensing rights/issues finally explained via Mexico
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:58 am 
Lumen Cinereum
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Masters:

Sanz: We want to respect the wishes of the Sailor Scouts, the fans, in what they want, and a quality product. Regarding Sailor Moon, the negotiations to buy the license took a long time. There were many discussions on how the product was going to be released.

They (Toei) lend you the masters, where you take the audio, the image, everything, so you can make the DVDs. And at that moment (negotiations), they would not give us the “remastered” masters.

It was either those (remastered masters), or do a transfer from old Betacam tapes to DVD, and well, it’s not a very good quality image compared to the one all of you have on the DVDs we’ve released. It was an image quite degraded.

PlanB: Comparable to the version of Sailor Moon we saw on TV all those years ago, more or less, or worse?

Sanz: More or less, mainly because the resolution quality is a bit ugly, and also because the tapes are quite old. It’s said that the image on the tape has noise, a noise that’s very hard to remove in a remasterization. So it was a difficult negotiation because they already had plans to release the DVDs commemorating the 20 years of Sailor Moon, and, well, they were DVDs with a new image, sound, and with new characteristics. So Capital 8 and Towers always fought to obtain the remasters, which is now what you have in your hands.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Going to bed now z.z I'll get the rest out tomorrow during the day :D


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 Post subject: Re: Licensing rights/issues finally explained via Mexico
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:23 am 
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Vilhem, thank you so much for translating this! I really enjoyed reading what you have so far. Very interesting to say that least. Funny how the man giving the interview seems to be under the impression that these remastered DVDs in Japan are brand new, when in fact they are just the same disc from years ago repackaged. Still, one wonders why Japan made them wait for the new masters when the Mexican market would most likely not even be aware of the Japanese disc.

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 Post subject: Re: Licensing rights/issues finally explained via Mexico
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:01 pm 
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B Clark wrote:
SailorHell wrote:
My friend's fiance organizes anime conventions, and he has connections at Kodansha. He wanted to try and get Takeuchi to come out for a convention, but Kodansha said no way, because they were apparently afraid of something happening to displease her. It seems that they handled her very delicately because of her exacting attitude, always wary that the Sailor Moon relaunch could fall apart if her mood changed. I definitely believe this article's description of her as tough to work with based on the story this guy told me. However, the free licensing part sounds like BS.


Depending on how all the contracts are written, a free license, with large royalties, will probably make her a lot more money in the long run.

And depending on the intellectual product in question, of course. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Licensing rights/issues finally explained via Mexico
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:40 pm 
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Thanks for translating this in full. I can only hope this is another rumor and not the truth.

Imagine if Stan Lee and Steve Ditko had held the rights to Spider-Man instead of Marvel Comics having the rights to the character due to it being a work-for-hire. It would have robbed future artists and writers from telling the stories with this character and would have limited him to the same, narrow-minded box that the Star Wars franchise is in thanks to George Lucas.

I hate the fact that corporations can maintain copyrights for far too long. I am not for corporations and conglomerates taking advantage of performance artists, for instance, but megacorporations are better at making and distributing a product for the masses. In fact that's what the anime essentially did, turned Sailor Moon from a manga hit that probably would have only been a cult classic in the rest of the world, to an international success story. For Takeuchi to take control of the anime and discount how it became successful is bad business.

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 Post subject: Re: Licensing rights/issues finally explained via Mexico
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:43 pm 
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Nangbaby wrote:
Thanks for translating this in full. I can only hope this is another rumor and not the truth.

Imagine if Stan Lee and Steve Ditko had held the rights to Spider-Man instead of Marvel Comics having the rights to the character due to it being a work-for-hire. It would have robbed future artists and writers from telling the stories with this character and would have limited him to the same, narrow-minded box that the Star Wars franchise is in thanks to George Lucas.

I hate the fact that corporations can maintain copyrights for far too long. I am not for corporations and conglomerates taking advantage of performance artists, for instance, but megacorporations are better at making and distributing a product for the masses. In fact that's what the anime essentially did, turned Sailor Moon from a manga hit that probably would have only been a cult classic in the rest of the world, to an international success story. For Takeuchi to take control of the anime and discount how it became successful is bad business.

However, if we took that analogy about Stan Lee and Steve Ditko, we wouldn't have trolls like Joe Quesada and Brand New Day. I think that Naoko should have complete creative control, like Walt Disney did with Mickey Mouse when he was alive.

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 Post subject: Re: Licensing rights/issues finally explained via Mexico
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:59 pm 
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Nangbaby wrote:
or Takeuchi to take control of the anime and discount how it became successful is bad business.

Maybe her aim is no longer all about making money? :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Licensing rights/issues finally explained via Mexico
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:24 pm 
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Kaitou Wolf wrote:
However, if we took that analogy about Stan Lee and Steve Ditko, we wouldn't have trolls like Joe Quesada and Brand New Day. I think that Naoko should have complete creative control, like Walt Disney did with Mickey Mouse when he was alive.


As mindbendingly stupid as Brand New Day was, what about all of the other important and good storylines (and subtle evolutions sytle-design in thanks to Romita's art) that came? Kraven's Last Hunt, Gwen Stacy's death...these are things that likely would have never happened if character control rested in the hands of the creators. New writers and new artists help franchises evolve, and when companies oversee these things, they can create (or allow for the creation of) adaptations that appeal to different audiences. Japanese Spider-Man on TV and in the manga (with Yu) can be made without affecting the media in the West. I just don't think it's a good thing for an artist to push his or her own vision on top of what was already released, especially when his/her contribution, while fundamental, was only a small part of the success story. If one wants to make a new production, that's one thing, but don't Lucas it up like the original trilogy, please.

Rika-Chicchi wrote:
Nangbaby wrote:
or Takeuchi to take control of the anime and discount how it became successful is bad business.

Maybe her aim is no longer all about making money? :wink:


If it is, then that's her right, but I don't feel she should be denying everyone else involved that helped her make the money in the first place when it comes to a product she did not directly make. The manga is her blood, sweat and tears. By all means, exert control over that. The anime is the work of countless animators who will never be known, art directors, writers, composers, voice actors, and so many others I'm overlooking, and the dub even more work.

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 Post subject: Re: Licensing rights/issues finally explained via Mexico
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:29 pm 
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Nangbaby wrote:
Kaitou Wolf wrote:
However, if we took that analogy about Stan Lee and Steve Ditko, we wouldn't have trolls like Joe Quesada and Brand New Day. I think that Naoko should have complete creative control, like Walt Disney did with Mickey Mouse when he was alive.


As mindbendingly stupid as Brand New Day was, what about all of the other important and good storylines (and subtle evolutions sytle-design in thanks to Romita's art) that came? Kraven's Last Hunt, Gwen Stacy's death...these are things that likely would have never happened if character control rested in the hands of the creators. New writers and new artists help franchises evolve, and when companies oversee these things, they can create (or allow for the creation of) adaptations that appeal to different audiences. Japanese Spider-Man on TV and in the manga (with Yu) can be made without affecting the media in the West. I just don't think it's a good thing for an artist to push his or her own vision on top of what was already released, especially when his/her contribution, while fundamental, was only a small part of the success story. If one wants to make a new production, that's one thing, but don't Lucas it up like the original trilogy, please.


Okay, I'll grant you that. However, we also don't know what everyone wants to do with Sailor Moon either. Would the average Sailor Moon fan want, say, Usagi to tear someone's head off?

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 Post subject: Re: Licensing rights/issues finally explained via Mexico
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:47 pm 
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Is "Sailor Moon" really comparable to something like "Spider-Man", though? Despite the fact they are both franchises, I don't really think so.

The whole "Sailor Moon" saga is played out over 5 specific story arcs, written and drawn completely by Naoko Takeuchi. It's my understanding that most American comics, especially the ones from the big publishers like Marvel and DC, are team efforts, even if they were created by one person. Unlike most of those, "S.M" isn't some big ongoing thing. It's done. Finished. The story's been told. If anything, I'd say it has more in common with something like the "Harry Potter" series, in that it was created and written by one person and has become a franchise via successful adaptations (movies/anime series, etc.).

I think Naoko has every right to own 100% of "Sailor Moon" if that is true, and it's no wonder really, considering how it's been treated throughout the years. Most of us complain about the dub but let's not forget Naoko herself wasn't all that pleased with the liberties the anime took with the story ('StarS' being the prime example). I imagine she's been pissed off with seeing her career pride and joy being played around with the way it has.

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 Post subject: Re: Licensing rights/issues finally explained via Mexico
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:53 pm 
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Kaitou Wolf wrote:
Okay, I'll grant you that. However, we also don't know what everyone wants to do with Sailor Moon either. Would the average Sailor Moon fan want, say, Usagi to tear someone's head off?


I'll quote Mara on this one.


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 Post subject: Re: Licensing rights/issues finally explained via Mexico
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:09 pm 
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Nangbaby wrote:
If it is, then that's her right, but I don't feel she should be denying everyone else involved that helped her make the money in the first place when it comes to a product she did not directly make. The manga is her blood, sweat and tears. By all means, exert control over that. The anime is the work of countless animators who will never be known, art directors, writers, composers, voice actors, and so many others I'm overlooking, and the dub even more work.


You make it seem like these people were never compensated ever. They were. However, they probably signed contracts stating whatever work they do for the studio becomes property of respective copyright holders. That's their own fault for signing their souls away and doing work for other creators instead of creating something of their own. That's how it works. Either struggle as an unknown artist and try to become successful by their own creations, or jump on the bandwagon of someone who is successful.

But the point is Sailor Moon is not a business; it is a work of art, owned by one person: Naoko Takeuchi. Sure, she allowed others to license her characters, but whatever work they create under her license becomes hers as well. She may have not had a hands-on role in creating the anime, but the anime is still hers as they are her characters and plotlines. You may not agree with it, but that's how it is, and you need to just deal with the fact Naoko is enforcing stricter control over her intellectual property.

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 Post subject: Re: Licensing rights/issues finally explained via Mexico
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:49 pm 
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Kaitou Wolf wrote:
Okay, I'll grant you that. However, we also don't know what everyone wants to do with Sailor Moon either. Would the average Sailor Moon fan want, say, Usagi to tear someone's head off?


I'm bolding that because you actually admitted this and I'm going to have to keep this post on record for future reference unless the board's search feature comes back.

In the case where it is unknown what someone wants, typically the past takes precedence until otherwise proven unworkable. You don't re-invent the wheel or stop applying heat to meat to cook it just because someone else did it. That's why I'm saying even if she wanted a more accurate dub, throwing every change away would be like throwing away the baby with the bathwater, and all the fans would be left with is an empty pan.

I do agree the market has changed, which is why I will gladly take a new anime. Instead of dubbing the old Hawaii Five-O for today's audiences, remake it. If you're going to throw out the old for something new, make it new. If you want something old, bring back the old. But don't bring back the old, change the audio around, then pretend that's the way it always was.

sailor-diamond wrote:
Is "Sailor Moon" really comparable to something like "Spider-Man", though? Despite the fact they are both franchises, I don't really think so.

The whole "Sailor Moon" saga is played out over 5 specific story arcs, written and drawn completely by Naoko Takeuchi. It's my understanding that most American comics, especially the ones from the big publishers like Marvel and DC, are team efforts, even if they were created by one person. Unlike most of those, "S.M" isn't some big ongoing thing. It's done. Finished. The story's been told.


I agree there are significant differences between the examples. What I was getting at though, was that if an author/artist does not have control over the franchise, it can allow for more marketing and story-telling opportunities than if one limits it to, "I made it, so I control it." The Sailor Moon anime was an example of this. Away from Naoko Takecuhi's iron fist, it became a smash success (if lesser in quality).

sailor-diamond wrote:
If anything, I'd say it has more in common with something like the "Harry Potter" series, in that it was created and written by one person and has become a franchise via successful adaptations (movies/anime series, etc.).


Harry Potter was phenomenally popular in print before the first movie was even cast. While the movies were successful, it was the books that drove the box office and even the marketing subtly reflected this. Sailor Moon, while a popular manga in Japan, did not reach world-wide mega hit status until the anime came out, and in fact the anime is what comes to mind when you think of the Sailor Moon franchise. That's the key difference. Harry Potter would still be a massive international success (albeit somewhat less mainstream) if not for the movies; Sailor Moon would not have been if not for the anime.

sailor-diamond wrote:
I think Naoko has every right to own 100% of "Sailor Moon" if that is true, and it's no wonder really, considering how it's been treated throughout the years. Most of us complain about the dub but let's not forget Naoko herself wasn't all that pleased with the liberties the anime took with the story ('StarS' being the prime example). I imagine she's been pissed off with seeing her career pride and joy being played around with the way it has.


Then she should lobby for a new anime, which would be a new product, which would make more money and lure younger fans across the world. Instead she's deciding she wants to take control and mess with TOEI and the fans who supported her in the past in an attempt to squeeze while tweaking the released work to the point where the charm is gone. Again, it's just like George Lucas and how he started changing the original SW trilogy to what he "intended" them to be and made the original cuts of the films nigh-unavailable, except without the backlash. Fans don't like being played around with, either.

Yen-sama wrote:
Nangbaby wrote:
If it is, then that's her right, but I don't feel she should be denying everyone else involved that helped her make the money in the first place when it comes to a product she did not directly make. The manga is her blood, sweat and tears. By all means, exert control over that. The anime is the work of countless animators who will never be known, art directors, writers, composers, voice actors, and so many others I'm overlooking, and the dub even more work.


You make it seem like these people were never compensated ever. They were. However, they probably signed contracts stating whatever work they do for the studio becomes property of respective copyright holders. That's their own fault for signing their souls away and doing work for other creators instead of creating something of their own. That's how it works. Either struggle as an unknown artist and try to become successful by their own creations, or jump on the bandwagon of someone who is successful.


So it's their fault that they have to be in indentured servitude of a single person based on work they did for a company...

Yen-sama wrote:
But the point is Sailor Moon is not a business; it is a work of art, owned by one person: Naoko Takeuchi. Sure, she allowed others to license her characters, but whatever work they create under her license becomes hers as well. She may have not had a hands-on role in creating the anime, but the anime is still hers as they are her characters and plotlines. You may not agree with it, but that's how it is, and you need to just deal with the fact Naoko is enforcing stricter control over her intellectual property.


Sailor Moon is a business, metaphorically speaking. It is a commercial product. It's trademarked.

Just because Naoko somehow got control of a televised adaptation of her work does not mean that's how it usually happens or even how it should happen. Do you think Gene Roddenbery's estate controls Star Trek because he was the creator? Typically the production studios retain the rights to their own productions, even when they're licensed adaptations of someone else's work (see Fox milking X-Men movies for all they're worth). That's why TOEI is the one who flags Sailor Moon videos and episodes on YouTube, not Takeuchi. Apparently, you see nothing wrong when an author can make a moderately successful product, allow a production company to take the financial risk on their shoulders to make an adaptation, then the author to control it forever and ever.

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 Post subject: Re: Licensing rights/issues finally explained via Mexico
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:53 pm 
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Well, okay, what about Walt Disney or JK Rowling, two people who do or did have more control (or even total control) over their product? Granted, I think people were more respectful to Rowling, but, Walt had more or less total command until he died, and chose to share Mickey and company with the world (Disney today is actually pretty sad, Walt would be rolling over in his grave).

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 Post subject: Re: Licensing rights/issues finally explained via Mexico
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:54 pm 
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Nangbaby wrote:
Apparently, you see nothing wrong when an author can make a moderately successful product, allow a production company to take the financial risk on their shoulders to make an adaptation, then the author to control it forever and ever.


Obviously I don't a problem with Naoko having complete control over her intellectual property (which is the way it should be). Toei is still making money, but it's Naoko's story and characters. Of course she should have ultimate control. Corporations walk all over authors and creators all the time. Toei spent years trashing Naoko's story and characters and allowing dubbing companies to degrade it further just to make a quick buck. It's refreshing to finally see it the other way around.

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 Post subject: Re: Licensing rights/issues finally explained via Mexico
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:10 pm 
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Yen-sama wrote:
Nangbaby wrote:
Apparently, you see nothing wrong when an author can make a moderately successful product, allow a production company to take the financial risk on their shoulders to make an adaptation, then the author to control it forever and ever.


Obviously I don't a problem with Naoko having complete control over her intellectual property (which is the way it should be). Toei is still making money, but it's Naoko's story and characters. Of course she should have ultimate control. Corporations walk all over authors and creators all the time. Toei spent years trashing Naoko's story and characters and allowing dubbing companies to degrade it further just to make a quick buck. It's refreshing to finally see it the other way around.


She should have ultimate control over her manga. She should have some control over the depiction of her characters, She should have control over the intial decision to authorize. If she is a producer in those projects, she should have control of them. And she defintely deserved to be compensated even if she isn't in control.

She shouldn't have control over an anime she let TOEI have free reign to create. The anime itself should have remained out of her control. She allowed it to be created; that's her problem.

Corporate control over creators is a problem, but simply reverting control of every aspect of the entire franchise to the creator doesn't solve the problem...it only makes it worse because you're concentrating power in the hand of an individual.

TOEI "trashed" the story, but by trashing it, they made it more popular than her anime. They knew what they were doing and how to make a profit out of it. In fact, you argue that their "trash" and changes to the story should be preserved in a new dub no less.

For someone who supposedly likes fan work, she is a control freak, no better than the RIAA. Where's her respect to the fans?

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 Post subject: Re: Licensing rights/issues finally explained via Mexico
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:11 pm 
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Maybe it's not that she doesn't want anyone to mess it up, but, rather, maybe she wants it spread on her own time?

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 Post subject: Re: Licensing rights/issues finally explained via Mexico
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:15 pm 
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Nangbaby wrote:
Yen-sama wrote:
Nangbaby wrote:
Apparently, you see nothing wrong when an author can make a moderately successful product, allow a production company to take the financial risk on their shoulders to make an adaptation, then the author to control it forever and ever.


Obviously I don't a problem with Naoko having complete control over her intellectual property (which is the way it should be). Toei is still making money, but it's Naoko's story and characters. Of course she should have ultimate control. Corporations walk all over authors and creators all the time. Toei spent years trashing Naoko's story and characters and allowing dubbing companies to degrade it further just to make a quick buck. It's refreshing to finally see it the other way around.


She should have ultimate control over her manga. She should have some control over the depiction of her characters, She should have control over the intial decision to authorize. If she is a producer in those projects, she should have control of them. And she defintely deserved to be compensated even if she isn't in control.

She shouldn't have control over an anime she let TOEI have free reign to create. The anime itself should have remained out of her control. She allowed it to be created; that's her problem.

Corporate control over creators is a problem, but simply reverting control of every aspect of the entire franchise to the creator doesn't solve the problem...it only makes it worse because you're concentrating power in the hand of an individual.

TOEI "trashed" the story, but by trashing it, they made it more popular than her anime. They knew what they were doing and how to make a profit out of it. In fact, you argue that their "trash" and changes to the story should be preserved in a new dub no less.

For someone who supposedly likes fan work, she is a control freak, no better than the RIAA. Where's her respect to the fans?


Why should she respect fans like you who lobby to change things as simple as the names of her characters and the setting of her story?

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 Post subject: Re: Licensing rights/issues finally explained via Mexico
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:34 pm 
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Kaitou Wolf wrote:
Maybe it's not that she doesn't want anyone to mess it up, but, rather, maybe she wants it spread on her own time?


True, but she's playing a dangerous game by waiting. While she does not have to allow it for release in the US for the revival, she waits until the manga is too far along, the buzz is going to die down. Plus also going to draw criticism from the new manga fans who are wondering why this "faithful" Sailor Moon anime is nothing like the manga.

Also, her demands are rather incompatible with maximum profitability. There has been a relaxation in the standards of what is allowable for kids TV to be sure, but having no "censorship" at all is going to render this unable to be seen by kids. 95% of Sailor Moon can go (including the controversial elements), but that other 5% has to be dealt with, and 100% or bust could lead to bust, or a home video only release (which will shut out new fans).

Unless Funimation has been doing a stealth dub, it's going to take several months at the bare minimum from the production to the completion of enough episodes in a suitable viewing format. It will take longer if she wants to get this thing on TV so that it can make more money for the franchise. Personally, I have no problem with her taking her time. Yes, Sailor Moon will likely sell like hotcakes no matter how the franchise is treated. But the longer she waits, the older and more outdated that footage looks. TV is a far more time-sensitive medium than print.

Yen-sama wrote:
Why should she respect fans like you who lobby to change things as simple as the names of her characters and the setting of her story?


Because those changes were what fans like I and others fell in love with, and we spend money just like the fans who prefer another vision.

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 Post subject: Re: Licensing rights/issues finally explained via Mexico
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:37 pm 
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Well, the thing about censoring Sailor Moon is that, with all the Gay Pride, and the Da Vinci Code and everything else in between, there really shouldn't be any need to censor anything in that show, besides the nudity, and even that can be managed without that much of a ripple.
And I'm not talking about the transformation, but the last episode.

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 Post subject: Re: Licensing rights/issues finally explained via Mexico
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:41 pm 
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Kaitou Wolf wrote:
Well, the thing about censoring Sailor Moon is that, with all the Gay Pride, and the Da Vinci Code and everything else in between, there really shouldn't be any need to censor anything in that show, besides the nudity, and even that can be managed without that much of a ripple.


You're forgetting Chibi-Usa holding a realistic looking gun at Usagi's head, elephant jokes, and of course, Grandpa Hino's flirting (which will probably stay).

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 Post subject: Re: Licensing rights/issues finally explained via Mexico
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:42 pm 
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Nangbaby wrote:
Kaitou Wolf wrote:
Maybe it's not that she doesn't want anyone to mess it up, but, rather, maybe she wants it spread on her own time?


True, but she's playing a dangerous game by waiting. While she does not have to allow it for release in the US for the revival, she waits until the manga is too far along, the buzz is going to die down. Plus also going to draw criticism from the new manga fans who are wondering why this "faithful" Sailor Moon anime is nothing like the manga.

Also, her demands are rather incompatible with maximum profitability. There has been a relaxation in the standards of what is allowable for kids TV to be sure, but having no "censorship" at all is going to render this unable to be seen by kids. 95% of Sailor Moon can go (including the controversial elements), but that other 5% has to be dealt with, and 100% or bust could lead to bust, or a home video only release (which will shut out new fans).

Unless Funimation has been doing a stealth dub, it's going to take several months at the bare minimum from the production to the completion of enough episodes in a suitable viewing format. It will take longer if she wants to get this thing on TV so that it can make more money for the franchise. Personally, I have no problem with her taking her time. Yes, Sailor Moon will likely sell like hotcakes no matter how the franchise is treated. But the longer she waits, the older and more outdated that footage looks. TV is a far more time-sensitive medium than print.

Yen-sama wrote:
Why should she respect fans like you who lobby to change things as simple as the names of her characters and the setting of her story?


Because those changes were what fans like I and others fell in love with, and we spend money just like the fans who prefer another vision.


And of all the SM Fans I've met and networked with (hundreds up to a thousand, between the internet and conventions), you are seriously the only one who is in that much love with the dub.


Nangbaby wrote:
Kaitou Wolf wrote:
Well, the thing about censoring Sailor Moon is that, with all the Gay Pride, and the Da Vinci Code and everything else in between, there really shouldn't be any need to censor anything in that show, besides the nudity, and even that can be managed without that much of a ripple.


You're forgetting Chibi-Usa holding a realistic looking gun at Usagi's head, elephant jokes, and of course, Grandpa Hino's flirting (which will probably stay).


And there are boys cartoons where characters use REAL guns and toy guns get marketed to kids all the goddamned time. I work in a toy store that has an entire aisle dedicated to toy guns.. DBZ also gets away with poop jokes and a dirty old man. It's not as terrible as you make it seem.

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Last edited by Yen on Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Licensing rights/issues finally explained via Mexico
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:42 pm 
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Nangbaby wrote:
Kaitou Wolf wrote:
Well, the thing about censoring Sailor Moon is that, with all the Gay Pride, and the Da Vinci Code and everything else in between, there really shouldn't be any need to censor anything in that show, besides the nudity, and even that can be managed without that much of a ripple.


You're forgetting Chibi-Usa holding a realistic looking gun at Usagi's head, elephant jokes, and of course, Grandpa Hino's flirting (which will probably stay).

Okay, the elephant has to go, that I'd agree with, the gun scene was pretty damn funny (my younger siblings got a good laugh at that), and I had no problem with Grandpa Hino.

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 Post subject: Re: Licensing rights/issues finally explained via Mexico
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:05 pm 
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How many realistic looking guns have you seen in animated series that air on American TV and are series that are aimed at kids? There are guns in cartoons, sure, but the only time they were realistically drawn is for serious drama or for a very special lesson. Otherwise, they're very stylized, and you never see an animated kid doing that on TV (e.g. at the Return of the Joker controversy and how they had to edit that).

You might find it funny. Some kid's parent is definitely not, at least since it darn near encourages kids to play with guns. There might not be a DiC style edit and it might be left uncut on DVD, but that scene is going to get altered for TV in some form (likely painting over the gun itself).

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 Post subject: Re: Licensing rights/issues finally explained via Mexico
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:08 pm 
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Nangbaby wrote:
How many realistic looking guns have you seen in animated series that air on American TV and are series that are aimed at kids? There are guns in cartoons, sure, but the only time they were realistically drawn is for serious drama or for a very special lesson. Otherwise, they're very stylized, and you never see an animated kid doing that on TV (e.g. at the Return of the Joker controversy and how they had to edit that).


Where oh where...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Qa3zLfYI7I
Nangbaby wrote:
You might find it funny. Some kid's parent is definitely not, at least since it darn near encourages kids to play with guns. There might not be a DiC style edit and it might be left uncut on DVD, but that scene is going to get altered for TV in some form (likely painting over the gun itself).

They might just make the gun wonky looking.

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 Post subject: Re: Licensing rights/issues finally explained via Mexico
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:19 pm 
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Elmer Fudd carried a real gun that shot real bullets. Chibiusa's gun shot confetti.

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 Post subject: Re: Licensing rights/issues finally explained via Mexico
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:24 pm 
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Yen-sama wrote:
Elmer Fudd carried a real gun that shot real bullets.

So did Elisa's, as illustrated in the episode above. Also held the message "guns are not toys!"

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