Crystal could have redeem the four sisters

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Aug 16, 2014
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#22
It's not hard to add some to make them redeemable, such as misguided by Wiseman and recruited into the BMC, just like Another Story's opposite senshi.
I do not think that would work .That would for one would be a big change from the manga .
The second part none of the black moon characters were misguided . They joined Wisemen willingly ,to destroy eath .Then to re write history .
 
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Apr 1, 2020
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#23
I do not think that would work .That would for one would be a big change from the manga .
The second part none of the black moon characters were misguided . They joined Wisemen willingly ,to destroy eath .Then to re write history .
They were misguided in the manga as well, as Wiseman was using them and hide his purpose.

Also their goal was not to destroy earth, Demande went too rushed(Saphir was against it) by dropping the big black crystal and turned earth into a place of death, which is not even his intention, then they switched target to present time to rewrite history.

They mostly wanted to conquer earth and direct it with their idea, since against eternal life was not entirely a nonsense, it could be possible that some of its members were not beyond redemption, even Demande did regret in the end.
 
Aug 16, 2014
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#25
They were misguided in the manga as well, as Wiseman was using them and hide his purpose.

Also their goal was not to destroy earth, Demande went too rushed(Saphir was against it) by dropping the big black crystal and turned earth into a place of death, which is not even Demande's intention, then they switched target to present time to rewrite history.

They mostly wanted to conquer earth and direct it with their idea mostly, since against eternal life was not entirely a nonsense, it could be possible that some of its members were not beyond redemption, even Demande did regret in the end.
I was paraphrasing ,and yes they were used . But still they were trying to destroy the current future . They still killed mostly everyone,and try to rewrite future .These are not misguided naive children . These were killers who were in a death cult.Who hated the current future ,and rejected it .
 
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Apr 1, 2020
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#26
Demande didn’t show any remorse after discovering the truth about Wiseman; he grabbed the two silver crystals and nobody knows what he intended to do—probably take his own life and everyone else’s.
He did feel bad about his brother and did think that Sailor Moon was indeed bright when she tried to go against the crystal, just his brother's death and he was fooled all along had drove him into nuts so he wanted to destroy everything.

But if we are talking about Crystal, he did pick his sense back in the end and blocked the attack with his life.
 
Apr 1, 2020
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#28
I was paraphrasing ,and yes they were used . But still they were trying to destroy the current future . They still killed mostly everyone,and try to rewrite future .These are not misguided naive children . These were killers who were in a death cult.Who hated the current future ,and rejected it .
But it was not really their intention, Saphir was even against his brother's doing. It would not be a surprise if someone among the group was against massive killing but at the same time dislike eternal life as well.

Also from both Endymion and Demande's flashback, the sisters were not among the BMC members who left Earth, it's highly possible that the sisters were new recruits later.
 
Apr 1, 2020
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#29
Koan is a ruthless killer in the manga.
It's just a minor plot and can be easily changed, like Demande didn't kill that child in Crystal as well.

We are not talking about how does it happen in the manga, but could it be changed with current length and not change the main plot.
 
Aug 16, 2014
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#30
But it was not really their intention, Saphir was even against his brother's doing. It would not be a surprise if someone among the group was against massive killing but at the same time dislike eternal life as well.

Also from both Endymion and Demande's flashback, the sisters were not among the BMC members who left Earth, it's highly possible that the sisters were new recruits later.
I think you are stretching it. This was there intention . Why you don't see The four sisters . That doesn't mean they didn't joined .And lets say they did after that .They join evil cult after they kill billions ? That doesn't make them look good .
 
Likes: SILVER
Apr 1, 2020
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#31
I think you are stretching it. This was there intention . Why you don't see The four sisters . That doesn't mean they didn't joined .And lets say they did after that .They join evil cult after they kill billions ? That doesn't make them look good .
It wasn't, their goal was to conquer earth and destroy the eternal life style, not killing everyone and left nothing to run. Otherwise they would have no need to travel back in time, just focus on the future.

No, I'm saying that they probably joined it between the formation of BMC and the black crystal dropped to the future.

It's possible that they didn't have a word to say about the decision. Even Saphir could not stop his brother from doing it.

Still all of this could be easily made into reasonable characterization of the sisters without a overhaul of the main plot.
 

SILVER

Aurorae Lunares
Jan 7, 2014
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#32
Hell no.

It makes no sense for them to be redeemed in Crystal when the story is different in structure, characterization and themes. Demand being given a slight redemption upon death still had the same outcome, and it fit. I personally enjoyed seeing the sisters as powerful enemies instead.
 

julayla

Luna Crescens
Feb 9, 2018
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#33
I always thought that none of them could be redeemed because, at least in my theory, the sisters were just droids created by them (same with all the other Black Moon clan if we're to go with only Wiseman back then being the one banished due to being a war criminal, I mean how the heck was there only one person in the time he was banished and then more people in Black Moon anyway?). But that's just my own headcanon for the Manga/Crystal, something not to be taken seriously.
 
Jan 14, 2021
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#35
While the sisters redemption arc was my favorite part of the anime, I knew there was no chance of them being redeemed in Crystal: and after they kept the Shitennou alive for an anti climatic, tacked on "romance" that never went anywhere and just seemed to reinforce the senshi and the Kings as a female hive mind and a male hive mind, it almost felt like a relief that the sisters were able to keep their appearances short and memorable.

Still I feel like the sisters being used as cannon fodder by Rubeus was not just an incompetent boss squandering human resources, considering how much better the sisters seem in combat to the rest of the clan plus unique abilities like Koans gift of prophecy and Calaveras channeling abilities, it seemed like Rebeus was being stupidly evil in letting each sister die in combat before choosing to intervene when just one of them seemed far more capable then him or Esmeraude. It just seemed a shame that these four interesting villains died so quickly and resulted in three of the inners being more or less written out of the second arc.

I think they should have at least kept the senshi and the sisters around for a fully animated versuon of their battle in r with an updated version of ai no senshi. If they can't be redeemed at least let them survive longer into the arc to be fun villainesses
 
Apr 1, 2020
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#36
While the sisters redemption arc was my favorite part of the anime, I knew there was no chance of them being redeemed in Crystal: and after they kept the Shitennou alive for an anti climatic, tacked on "romance" that never went anywhere and just seemed to reinforce the senshi and the Kings as a female hive mind and a male hive mind, it almost felt like a relief that the sisters were able to keep their appearances short and memorable.

Still I feel like the sisters being used as cannon fodder by Rubeus was not just an incompetent boss squandering human resources, considering how much better the sisters seem in combat to the rest of the clan plus unique abilities like Koans gift of prophecy and Calaveras channeling abilities, it seemed like Rebeus was being stupidly evil in letting each sister die in combat before choosing to intervene when just one of them seemed far more capable then him or Esmeraude. It just seemed a shame that these four interesting villains died so quickly and resulted in three of the inners being more or less written out of the second arc.

I think they should have at least kept the senshi and the sisters around for a fully animated versuon of their battle in r with an updated version of ai no senshi. If they can't be redeemed at least let them survive longer into the arc to be fun villainesses
Yeah, other than Usagi and Chibiusa, the most well developed character in the BMC manga was Demande.
 
Jan 24, 2021
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#37
I have To agree with The others. The members of The black moon clan was really bad pepole who did unforgivable things in The manga story.
Naoko didn’t gave her villians any redemption in The stories. Just The generals and The amazon Quartet because they were brainwashed.
I am glad that they didn’t get redeemed because Of Sailor moon or The rest of The Senshi.
I can’t see To exempel Usagi forgive Prince Diamond for trying force himself on her. Or Prince Sapphire for strangling her!. Or Ami forgiving Berthier for trying To Drown her in battle. Heck Conan killed a girl and Nun in The manga and didn’t feelt bad for it!
So Please remeber that Sailor moon crystal follows The manga storyline and Not The 90s one.
So Please read The manga.
 
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Jun 17, 2019
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#38
While I've said numerous times that the BMC as characters are my least favorite thing about the BMC arc in the manga and that that's one aspect R has over it, no they shouldn't be changed. Not if they're "trying" to stay as accurate to the manga's pacing and story as much as possible, to attempt any such change would just leave us with another Shittenou situation on our hands. Half-assed, short-baked, never went anywhere and utterly and completely pointless.

I love the BMC in the 90's anime, they're one of, if not my absolute favorite villainous organization. But the BMC in the 90's anime are totally different characters from the ones in the manga. Literally the only thing they have in common is sharing the same names, faces and powers. Everything else - personality, backstory, motivation, etc is completely different. So it would be disingenuous to try to give any of them a redemption arc when these are not the same characters who were never meant to be sympathetic in the first place. The BMC in the manga are scum through and through and deserve to die, period. Whereas in the 90's anime and some old musicals they were an oppressed nation of freedom fighters, in the Manga they are a hyper-religious literal death cult.

We see Manga Demande strangling a literal child to death, I doubt 90's anime Demande or Myu Demande would ever do such a thing (Especially Myu Demande since in the old musicals he takes two half-Nemesian half Earthling twin little girls into his clan)We see him outright state that "Love and Peace are an illusion." He genuinely believes peace is a bad thing and that war should always rage on, he literally tries to destroy the entire freaking universe and Space Time Continuum and you somehow think this guy deserves redemption? Also the rapey vibes he gives off are toned wayy the [BLEEP] up in the Manga/Crystal since it's clear that unlike the 90's anime where he was genuinely in love with NQS/Sailor Moon (despite how misguided he was in that love) In the Manga/Crystal he saw her solely as a conquest. He wasn't trying to own her because he loved her but to exert his dominance over her, he was planning to kill her after he had had his way with her.

I'm pretty sure the reason why Demande wasn't made sympathetic in the slightest in the manga was because he was supposed to be a commentary on toxic masculinity and rape culture, he is literally the face of it. And that makes it all the more powerful when Usagi is able to stare him down in the face and escape from his grasp using her own power and the help of her best female friends. Compare that to the 90's anime where Tux has to fly in to save her like she's some kind of damsel. It's clear to me that while in the 90's anime Demande was meant to be an actual character, in the Manga he's meant to be more of a representation, a good way of teaching young tween girls about female empowerment and the dangers of a Toxically Masculine attitude. Demande's extreme violence, belief that peace and tranquility is an illusion and for the weak and that love can be forced/taken? All textbook examples of Toxic Masculinity in play.

Personally this is why Crystal's changing of his death is one of the changes that angers me the most. What exactly did it accomplish? I don't know about you but that change didn't make Demande come off anymore sympathetic one iota. He's still ultimately "protecting" her so he can kill her himself, he literally says it. So all we got in exchange was Death Phantom offing Demande himself rather the powerful message that was supposed to be conveyed of Usagi killing her rapist alongside her consensual lover who she chose herself. It was yet another example of Crystal's stupid, useless and meaningless changes and they would've been better off sticking to the manga.

And like others have said, even if you wanted to redeem other members of the clan like the sisters, you can't because they are literal cold-blooded murderers, in the 90's anime they never murder anybody. Hell, in the 90's the BMC's plots barely harm any civilians in general, if they're not chasing down Rabbit they're trying to infuse the Crystal Points with Dark Energy, they never attempt any bodily harm on ordinary civilians. In fact correct me if I'm wrong, but they might actually be the only villainous organization that does the least amount of harm to civilians in general in the anime? Far cry from their manga counterparts who are actually the only villains we see murder children and attempt rape.

But if you must redeem any Manga/Crystal BMC member might I suggest Rubeus? He actually ends up looking like the most decent one of the lot (ironic, considering his 90's counterpart was definitely the most dickish - in this case I'd say he's the only clan member who's Manga self is better and more fleshed out than his 90's version) He has a jovial, laid-back personality in the manga and treats the sisters quite decently, even seeming to have a bit of a fling with Calveras. He's also the only one of the Clan that's immediately onto Wiseman and tries to warn Demande before Wiseman axes him. I don't think any of the Manga/Crystal BMC deserve redemption or a sympathetic backstory but if I had to pick, Rubeus would be the one that makes the most sense.
 
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Aug 16, 2014
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#39
While I've said numerous times that the BMC as characters are my least favorite thing about the BMC arc in the manga and that that's one aspect R has over it, no they shouldn't be changed. Not if they're "trying" to stay as accurate to the manga's pacing and story as much as possible, to attempt any such change would just leave us with another Shittenou situation on our hands. Half-assed, short-baked never went anywhere and utterly and completely pointless.

I love the BMC in the 90's anime, they're one of, if not my absolute favorite villainous organization. But the BMC in the 90's anime are totally different characters from the ones in the manga. Literally the only thing they have in common is sharing the same names, faces and powers. Everything else - personality, backstory, motivation, etc is completely different. So it would be disingenuous to try to give any of them a redemption arc when these are not the same characters who were never meant to be sympathetic in the first place. The BMC in the manga are scum through and through and deserve to die, period. Whereas in the 90's anime and some old musicals they were an oppressed nation of freedom fighters, in the Manga they are a hyper-religious literal death cult.

We see Manga Demande strangling a literal child to death, I doubt 90's anime Demande or Myu Demande would ever do such a thing (Especially Myu Demande since in the old musicals he takes two half-Nemesian half Earthling twin little girls into his clan)We see him outright state that "Love and Peace are an illusion." He genuinely believes peace is a bad thing and that war should always rage on, he literally tries to destroy the entire freaking universe and Space Time Continuum and you somehow think this guy deserves redemption? Also the rapey vibes he gives off are toned wayy the [BLEEP] up in the Manga/Crystal since it's clear that unlike the 90's anime where he was genuinely in love with NQS/Sailor Moon (despite how misguided he was in that love) In the Manga/Crystal he saw her solely as a conquest. He wasn't trying to own her because he loved her but to exert his dominance over her, he was planning to kill her after he had had his way with her.

I'm pretty sure the reason why Demande wasn't made sympathetic in the slightest in the manga was because he was supposed to be a commentary on toxic masculinity and rape culture, he is literally the face of it. And that makes it all the more powerful when Usagi is able to stare him down in the face and escape from his grasp using her own power and the help of her best female friends. Compare that to the 90's anime where Tux has to fly in to save her like she's some kind of damsel. It's clear to me that while in the 90's anime Demande was meant to be an actual character, in the Manga he's meant to be more of a representation, a good way of teaching young tween girls about female empowerment and the dangers of a Toxically Masculine attitude. Demande's extreme violence, belief that peace and tranquility is an illusion and for the weak and that love can be forced/taken? All textbook examples of Toxic Masculinity in Play.

Personally this is why Crystal's changing of his death is one of the changes that angers me the most. What exactly did it accomplish? I don't know about you but that change didn't make Demande come off anymore sympathetic one iota. He's still ultimately "protecting" her so he can kill her himself, he literally says it. So all we got in exchange was Death Phantom offing Demande himself rather the powerful message that was supposed to be conveyed of Usagi killing her rapist alongside her consensual lover who she chose herself. It was yet another example of Crystal's stupid, useless and meaningless changes and they would've been better off sticking to the manga.

And like others have said, even if you wanted to redeem other members of the clan like the sisters, you can't because they are literal cold-blooded murderers, in the 90's anime they never murder anybody. Hell, in the 90's the BMC's plots barely harm any civilians in general, if they're not chasing down Rabbit they're trying to infuse the Crystal Points with Dark Energy, they never attempt any bodily harm on ordinary civilians. In fact correct me if I'm wrong, but they might actually be the only villainous organization that does the least amount of harm to civilians in the anime? Far cry from their manga counterparts who are actually the only villains we see murder children and attempt rape.

But if you must redeem any Manga/Crystal BMC member might I suggest Rubeus? He actually ends looking like the most decent one of the lot (ironic, considering his 90's counterpart was definitely the most dickish - in this case I'd say he's the only clan member who's Manga self is better and more fleshed out than his 90's version) He has a jovial, laid-back personality in the manga and treats the sisters quite decently, even seeming to have a bit of a fling with Calveras. He's also the only one of the Clan that's immediately onto Wiseman and tries to warn Demande before Wiseman axes him. I don't think any of the Manga/Crystal BMC deserve redemption or a sympathetic backstory but if I had to pick, Rubeus would be the one that makes the most sense.
I agree with you instead of the whole toxic masculinity, and rape culture crud.Either than that I agree.People need to understand they were not the same characters.
 
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#40
Buy the way are we now sure that it’s Prince Demande and not Diamond ? :lol:

I still don’t get why he should be the only one not to clearly have a “jewels/mineral” name. But maybe Naoko wanted to play with both words as “Demande” in French means “Request/ asking for” (which he kind of doing with his Neo Queen’s obsession) and sounds also like “Diamond”.