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You’re not getting it, it’s not about mere distaste of women, toxic masculinity is a very specific mindset and mentality towards life that prioritizes dominance, power and negative emotions over softness and submission.
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Princess Sugar Lily
Okay, you don't have to see it, but that doesn't make it any less of a reality for most women. I feel like you misunderstand the phrase "toxic masculinity" as claiming all men are toxic, and think that the fact that SOME women don't fear being raped daily means that NO women do, and so denounce rape culture as a result.
I'm not going to lose sleep trying to convince you otherwise, though, you're free to believe whatever you want to believe even if I think it's wrong. Judging by your username I assumed you were female and would thus be more open-minded to things like this, but I suppose that wasn't the case.
I'm not going to lose sleep trying to convince you otherwise, though, you're free to believe whatever you want to believe even if I think it's wrong. Judging by your username I assumed you were female and would thus be more open-minded to things like this, but I suppose that wasn't the case.
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FloraKiraraHime
Exactly. As well as violence and the concept of "taking what's yours" i.e., male entitlement, which is exactly what he tries to do to Usagi. The man literally exudes toxic masculinity, at least in my opinion. It's why I don't understand people who ship them, but to each their own, I guess.
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FloraKiraraHime
I don't think that's toxic masculinity, you are not using the right word to describe the behavior.
Toxic masculinity is based on sexism, which both Demande and BMC didn't seem to have such bias at all.
Toxic masculinity is based on sexism, which both Demande and BMC didn't seem to have such bias at all.
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MsImagination
Actually...
Toxic masculinity - Wikipedia
“The term toxic masculinity originated in the mythopoetic men's movement of the 1980s and 1990s. It later found wide use in both academic and popular writing. Popular and media discussions in the 2010s have used the term to refer to traditional and stereotypical norms of masculinity and manhood. According to the sociologist Michael Flood, these include ‘expectations that boys and men must be active, aggressive, tough, daring, and dominant’.”
Toxic masculinity - Wikipedia
“The term toxic masculinity originated in the mythopoetic men's movement of the 1980s and 1990s. It later found wide use in both academic and popular writing. Popular and media discussions in the 2010s have used the term to refer to traditional and stereotypical norms of masculinity and manhood. According to the sociologist Michael Flood, these include ‘expectations that boys and men must be active, aggressive, tough, daring, and dominant’.”
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FloraKiraraHime
Jeez, no need to be so dismissive.
Is it too hard to believe that the concept could exist in Japan at the time too? Or that Naoko Takeuchi, an ardent feminist, could be trying to point out the issue with worldviews like these even if the exact term itself that we use in the West isn't present there? Since I know they don't use the word "girl power" the same way either(although Sailor Moon still shows it), but still.
Is it too hard to believe that the concept could exist in Japan at the time too? Or that Naoko Takeuchi, an ardent feminist, could be trying to point out the issue with worldviews like these even if the exact term itself that we use in the West isn't present there? Since I know they don't use the word "girl power" the same way either(although Sailor Moon still shows it), but still.
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kasumigenx
oh hell that dosent exist, its just a new politic concept, there are only bad people, no matter what gender they have they can be toxic, yeah its not only male to females, females do it too, because bad people they are everywhere
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kasumigenx
No offense, but this is a classic MRA excuse used to throw under the rug the specific ways men are encouraged to be toxic under patriarchy.
It’s not about “bad people” or hating men, or saying they’re all toxic. At. All. You seem to have misunderstood entirely the concept of toxic masculinity. I want to clarify, really, I do! But like @saintfighteraqua said, I think this conversation has been going on for too long and may have come to its natural end.
It’s not about “bad people” or hating men, or saying they’re all toxic. At. All. You seem to have misunderstood entirely the concept of toxic masculinity. I want to clarify, really, I do! But like @saintfighteraqua said, I think this conversation has been going on for too long and may have come to its natural end.
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FloraKiraraHime
I kind of skipped the whole conversation (since I was on page 1 and then jumped to page 4 because I was wondering how this thread lasted from 2020 all the way to 2021) but I'd just like to point out that Sailor Moon felt really vulnerable when she was paralyzed and Demande tried to kiss her and the entire scene felt VERY r*pey.
UsagixManga/Crystal Demande is easily my most hated Usagi ship of all time, though I think in the 90’s anime Seiya edges him out for the worst Usagi ship since at least Demande is direct about being garbage while Seiya is an emotionally manipulative “nice guy” which I would argue is far more insidious.
That being said, neither ship will ever be as bad as Chibiusa/Mamoru or Chibiusa/any adult.
That being said, neither ship will ever be as bad as Chibiusa/Mamoru or Chibiusa/any adult.
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Seyia in the 90s is way worse than Demand. Guitl tripping/ emotional manipulation is indeed more insidious.
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Princess Sugar Lily
More misogynistic too, since the whole “nice guy” routine and whining is the go to tactic for the incel movement. That mentality treats women as sex dispensing vending machines which men are “owed” so long as they put in a “nice act.”
At least Demande is direct with his affections and doesn’t pretend to be someone he’s not.
At least Demande is direct with his affections and doesn’t pretend to be someone he’s not.
The funny thing is, Seiya in the 90’s anime also directly ignores Usagi’s consent just like Demande does. They force her on a date and keep pestering/hounding her when she’s made it clear she’s not interested, has a boyfriend and flat-out said “no” multiple times.
So 90’s Seiya is both emotionally manipulative and directly forceful, lovely.
So 90’s Seiya is both emotionally manipulative and directly forceful, lovely.