Do any of you dislike the old english dub?

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C-17

Luna Nova
Mar 26, 2013
178
10
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#62
LifeGaveMeLemons said:
That doesn’t undermine Memento’s (correct) statement at all just because you want to be a smarmy twat about criticism against your pwecious original
No, and that particular person's "criticism" is incorrect, and also ridiculous.
Saying Zoicite and Kunzite's relationship is "problematic" because Zoicite is feminine, and as such "adapts to a hetero-normative dynamic", necessarily implies Zoicite being feminine is wrong, suggesting he, as a gay man, should be portrayed in a masculine way.
If anything, that is a "problematic" mind set, rather than the series presenting a diverse cast. There is absolutely no reason why Fish-Eye and Zoicite shouldn't, or couldn't be presented as very feminine individuals. And there is no reason why their romantic interest couldn't, or shouldn't, be masculine characters.
The idea of gay characters being limited by their biological gender in terms of characterization, is incredibly regressive. That person is saying presenting a gay man as feminine is wrong, because he shouldn't be so. And I'm sorry, but that's not valid criticism.
Same for Haruka and Michiru. Implying their relationship is a problem essentially because Haruka is not "ambiguous enough" and too masculine is FAR from correct, valid, or even respectable criticism.
Haruka, Zoicite and Fish-Eye should be judged as characters based on their personalities and actions in the show, rather than being expected to act and date certain ways because of their biological genders.
So no, none of those arguments were correct, nor the series was homophobic in any shape or form, period.

OT: The American dub is cancer.
 
Likes: Iantuition

blondibear_17

Luna Crescens
Mar 3, 2017
299
199
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#63
I am actually surprised that they were able to get away with all the stuff they did get away with in the Dic dub there was plenty of stuff that they didn't downplay or change that they easily could have. I will never understand how they got away with not downplaying Darien's age at all. They don't ever explicitly state Serena's age but we know she is in school and they do explicitly state that Darien is out of high school and there were certain references to him being too old for her.
 

MariaTenebre

Lumen Cinereum
Jul 22, 2009
5,063
416
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#64
C-17 said:
LifeGaveMeLemons said:
That doesn’t undermine Memento’s (correct) statement at all just because you want to be a smarmy twat about criticism against your pwecious original
No, and that particular person's "criticism" is incorrect, and also ridiculous.
Saying Zoicite and Kunzite's relationship is "problematic" because Zoicite is feminine, and as such "adapts to a hetero-normative dynamic", necessarily implies Zoicite being feminine is wrong, suggesting he, as a gay man, should be portrayed in a masculine way.
If anything, that is a "problematic" mind set, rather than the series presenting a diverse cast. There is absolutely no reason why Fish-Eye and Zoicite shouldn't, or couldn't be presented as very feminine individuals. And there is no reason why their romantic interest couldn't, or shouldn't, be masculine characters.
The idea of gay characters being limited by their biological gender in terms of characterization, is incredibly regressive. That person is saying presenting a gay man as feminine is wrong, because he shouldn't be so. And I'm sorry, but that's not valid criticism.
Same for Haruka and Michiru. Implying their relationship is a problem essentially because Haruka is not "ambiguous enough" and too masculine is FAR from correct, valid, or even respectable criticism.
Haruka, Zoicite and Fish-Eye should be judged as characters based on their personalities and actions in the show, rather than being expected to act and date certain ways because of their biological genders.
So no, none of those arguments were correct, nor the series was homophobic in any shape or form, period.

OT: The American dub is cancer.
I agree with this so much. SJWs have become so regressive that they think that effeminate gay men are somehow degrading and problematic along with butch women so in essence they say that femme gay men and masculine women are somehow wrong. Again I saw nothing wrong with Zoisite or Kunzite's characters or relationship. Their relationship was portrayed as a positive part of their characters and they were always shown as a loving couple. Zoisite's femininity or his gay relationship with Kunzite wasn't portrayed in a negative light or that they were villainous because of that ditto for Fisheye. Haruka and Michiru were also portrayed as a loving couple and honestly at many points in S I sided with them over the Inners. Plus I liked Haruka better as more masculine the gender fluid. The reason I like this is because when Naoko Takeuchi was designing their characters she had the Takarazuka Revue in mind. Haruka was to represent the Otokoyaku or women who play male roles and Michiru was to represent the Musumeyaku or women who play female roles. Originally they were even supposed to be members of the Takarazuka Revue but this idea was dropped which was a shame.
 
Mar 8, 2012
4,768
3,567
1,665
#65
C-17 said:
LifeGaveMeLemons said:
That doesn’t undermine Memento’s (correct) statement at all just because you want to be a smarmy twat about criticism against your pwecious original
No, and that particular person's "criticism" is incorrect, and also ridiculous.
Saying Zoicite and Kunzite's relationship is "problematic" because Zoicite is feminine, and as such "adapts to a hetero-normative dynamic", necessarily implies Zoicite being feminine is wrong, suggesting he, as a gay man, should be portrayed in a masculine way.
If anything, that is a "problematic" mind set, rather than the series presenting a diverse cast. There is absolutely no reason why Fish-Eye and Zoicite shouldn't, or couldn't be presented as very feminine individuals. And there is no reason why their romantic interest couldn't, or shouldn't, be masculine characters.
The idea of gay characters being limited by their biological gender in terms of characterization, is incredibly regressive. That person is saying presenting a gay man as feminine is wrong, because he shouldn't be so. And I'm sorry, but that's not valid criticism.
Same for Haruka and Michiru. Implying their relationship is a problem essentially because Haruka is not "ambiguous enough" and too masculine is FAR from correct, valid, or even respectable criticism.
Haruka, Zoicite and Fish-Eye should be judged as characters based on their personalities and actions in the show, rather than being expected to act and date certain ways because of their biological genders.
So no, none of those arguments were correct, nor the series was homophobic in any shape or form, period.

OT: The American dub is cancer.
Reading is an incredibly important life skill, and I hope you are one day able to acquire it. When you do, you can go back and actually read my posts in this thread and see that I didn't say any of those made up quotes you've falsely attributed to me.

I know that I can sometimes get a bit ~intense~ with my critiques. I fully admit that I'm overly passionate and sensitive about these issues. My critiques are my opinions and I always respect others' differing opinions. So in the future, just scroll past my comments instead of responding to them with juvenile, obnoxious, misinformed nonsense.

Because the gag is: your trolling is the real cancer. Bloop!
 
May 2, 2007
3,493
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Canada
#66
blondibear_17 said:
I am actually surprised that they were able to get away with all the stuff they did get away with in the Dic dub there was plenty of stuff that they didn't downplay or change that they easily could have. I will never understand how they got away with not downplaying Darien's age at all. They don't ever explicitly state Serena's age but we know she is in school and they do explicitly state that Darien is out of high school and there were certain references to him being too old for her.
In the weight loss episode when Serena was having lunch with her classmates it was made explicitly clear that the girls were fourteen.
 
Jun 6, 2006
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NJ
#67
kikyo hino said:
In the weight loss episode when Serena was having lunch with her classmates it was made explicitly clear that the girls were fourteen.
Serena also says she's 15 in "The Perfect Couple".
 

blondibear_17

Luna Crescens
Mar 3, 2017
299
199
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#68
I forgot about the "but were 14" line in "Slim City" I know by S that "Serena" is turning 15 in "Birthday Blues" but that was CWI and it's a different dub altogether in my opinion although it was still airing on tv for kids CWI was way more bold than DIC and sticking a lot closer to the original. I think it's so weird that they were okay with or hadn't thought about the fact that Darien and Serena's relationship is totally not legal. I mean obviously there is no sexual relationship going on at this point but she is still shown going to his apartment by herself where he lives alone and stuff like that. It's definitely uncomfortable when Serena's father chases him down the block for being too old and Andrew refers to the girls of the main cast as being like "little sisters". This stuff doesn't bother me at all but it's very questionable stuff for before and after school cartoon blocks in America.
 
Jun 6, 2006
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NJ
#69
This is also the same dub that had an issue with homosexuality, yet was perfectly okay with Rini having a crush on her dad and Tiger's Eye thinking a little girl was "a babe".
 
Sep 29, 2014
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#70
I don't like the old dub. Certain things were ok, like I enjoyed some of the voices, but there was too much wrong. So often the script would be changed and not even in clever ways. They couldn't keep track of their own attack names and too many episodes outright skipped. I still have fond memories of the old dub as it introduced me to Sailor Moon and I might would watch certain episodes again but I much prefer either subbed or Viz
 
Sep 6, 2014
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#72
Umino said:
This is also the same dub that had an issue with homosexuality, yet was perfectly okay with Rini having a crush on her dad and Tiger's Eye thinking a little girl was "a babe".

Implying that the dubbers themselves had an issue with homosexuality and not the then state of USA society which would never allow gay characters on a kids show even NOW there's pushback when it happens with conservative parents complaining about the mere existence of gay couples or even non-sexualized gay parents (see Good Luck Charlie) as the Gay agenda.

To say nothing of Toonami's own rampaging hypocrisy.



[From an interview for Toonami producer Jason DeMarco]

7. Outlaw Star featured a gay character in a prominent role. While Fred Luo was toned down it was still apparent that he was gay. What is CN's editing policy on gay characters?

There is not a specific editing policy on gay characters. Overt sexuality or implied sexuality of any kind are not allowed.
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/edit-l ... -interview


I.E another way of saying homosexuals are inherently sexual. Because Toonami doesn't have a single problem with the Sailor Soldiers open crushing on men or Serena's love with Darien or in say Tenchi Muyo Ryoko's full on sexual harrassment of Tenchi.



It's like saying 4Kids is transphobic because they banned the episode where James had fake female breast and then later cut the offending scene out entirely when they finally aired it as a special except for all the 4kids things was and probably was transphobic they clearly weren't given they did use a transgender woman as one of their primary voice actors. (You could maaaaybe make the argument they were Xenophobic or at least thought American kids were xenophobic but)



Also the original Japanese version of Sailor Moon had its main character clearly have an issue with gay
people.


I forgot about the "but were 14" line in "Slim City" I know by S that "Serena" is turning 15 in "Birthday Blues" but that was CWI and it's a different dub altogether in my opinion although it was still airing on tv for kids CWI was way more bold than DIC and sticking a lot closer to the original.
I feel like CWI's reputation of being closer to the dub than DIC gets waaay over-exaggerated with keeping the Japanese score making it look a lot more faithful than the Dic dub than it actually was. Both the DIC dub and CWI had their episodes that stuck close to the Japanese script and those that were loose adaptations. Practices that CWI was doing like letting some Japanese terminology seep through had its roots in the lost episodes. Of course all helped by CWI was obviously hands off and according to Roland Parliament even DIC pretty much let Optimum do whatever on the day to day operations during the production of the syndicated episodes.
 

MariaTenebre

Lumen Cinereum
Jul 22, 2009
5,063
416
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#73
LifeGaveMeLemons I don't think in the original anime that Usagi had issues with LGBT people. She always seemed to support Haruka and Michiru and admire their relationship.
 
#74
some of the music was nice, i liked carry on and power of love. it was my introduction to sailor moon. but it had alot of issues. how they handled Haruka and Michiru was one. some of the scenes they left in, just made them looks like incents cousins. sisters might have been better, they could have said the hand scene was their secret sister handshake.

i have a bad feeling about where thread is going. In the past, every topic made about the old dub always turned into a war zone.
 
Apr 24, 2017
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#75
I actually prefer the old dub. Well the first 2 seasons anyways. I liked the soundtrack the dub used for the first 2 seasons.
 

Marta Ayanami

Lapis Lunaris
Mar 15, 2014
50
0
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Warsaw, Poland
#76
Here, let me give you guys an impartial opinion. As in, when it comes to my Sailor Moon, I grew up with very bored Polish voiceover over the wonderful, mostly hearable, JP original.

And so, if you mean Canadian (I think) dub of "Sailor Moon", the DiC dub, then I absolutely hate it. I was very glad to be able to buy three very old SM classic and R DVDs (UK import from ebay). Over a year ago, maybe two years ago. Very, very happy... till they arrived. And I had heard that DiC dub was awful, but I had never heard it with my own ears, and I heard bad things about Slayers ENG dub, too, and I sometimes tolerate and sometimes like it.

So here I was, optimistic, hoping that the awfulness of DiC dub was a hyperbole. Ready to find all the good things about it. Regretting slightly that the dvds have only ENG lg, no JP, but, oh well.

And then, I watched an ep. I watched all the episodes, on all three used discs I bought. And... the screeching. The screeching! And the corniness x 20 compared to the original. And the cuts. The cuts! And the horrible, horrible transition. The horrible, awful, terrible music that still can't get out of one's head for days and I hate it. And I don't mind AUs - in fact, I love and adore AUs - but the alternate universe created by DiC is so, so very inconsistent, I could cry out of the frustration.

I still watch the episodes, because years ago, I gave somebody my SM VHS tapes. But now, while watching DiC eps, I mute them.

Meanwhile, I illegally watched stuff on Hulu for a time, and so, I watched at least twenty episodes of Viz's SM dub. I adore it! Now that's the Sailor Moon I know, just in English for a change!
 

blondibear_17

Luna Crescens
Mar 3, 2017
299
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#77
I saw this video recently on youtube where this guy showed random japanese people dub clips from different anime and asked their opinions on it. I was surprised that a snippet of the Dic dub of Sailor Moon was used for comparison and it didn't seem like the sample of people hated it at all. Their opinions all varied.

 

FloraKiraraHime

Lumen Cinereum
May 1, 2015
2,669
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Pikari-gaoka
sparklyheartsdiana.tumblr.com
#79
After reading this thread carefully, I have to ask this: Do I have to be forced to like Viz (even though the new dub isn't really working out for me) and force to hate the old dub just to fit in with everyone?
No, I think you should form your own opinion.
 
Likes: Neo King Rose
Sep 14, 2017
100
32
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Trampa, Florida
#80
After reading this thread carefully, I have to ask this: Do I have to be forced to like Viz (even though the new dub isn't really working out for me) and force to hate the old dub just to fit in with everyone?
No? Everyone has different tastes. Personally I hate the Viz dub, I've cringed every time I've heard it. I don't like English dubs at all in the slightest, but I can enjoy the score from the Dic dub which I always found to be really pretty- the Moon Princess Halation music from Dic is probably my favorite, it just felt so powerful lol.

Dislike dubs, prefer original with subtitles, don't hate people who like them tho.