Do you think if Ikuhara continued with Stars.................

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#62
I am quite thankful for the Eternal movies in some way because the second movie and the finale of S3 of Crystal are what the Neherenia Arc(167-172) should have looked like in my opinion.
 
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skelenator-rainbow.tumblr.com
#63
I'm 50/50. Kill some, redeem a few. The only problem is that I'm greedy and would have wanted to see them in other seasons. Like Phantom Sisters in Dream or something.. take their Dream mirrors or something just to know they still exist..lol
Yeah, I feel a mix of both would be best. 90s anime is too redemption-happy while the manga is too kill-happy. It'd be nice if things were a bit more unpredictable.
 
Apr 1, 2020
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#64
Yeah, I feel a mix of both would be best. 90s anime is too redemption-happy while the manga is too kill-happy. It'd be nice if things were a bit more unpredictable.
The main problem is not redemption or kill, it's that how you show the characters.

The manga overall made most of the villains as bland monster, Demande, Phantom Ace and Galaixa were all killed but overall their characterization is fine, and Crystal made Demande's ending more convincing.

The anime did a good job on most of the villains' characterization other than a few like Beryl or Galaxia. Manga Beryl had more promise but still didn't execute too well.
 

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Aurorae Lunares
Jan 7, 2014
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#65
The problem in Sailor Stars whether Ikuhara is in or not, is in Naoko’s involvement in the Super S movie and her complacency, she got too complacent about Sailor Stars until it was too late.
Do you guys think that Naoko was just doodling in her notebooks 5/7 days of the week and working on the manga in the remaining time? No.
Her workload was HEAVY, so calling her complacent is rather ignorant?
 
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#66
Do you guys think that Naoko was just doodling in her notebooks 5/7 days of the week and working on the manga in the remaining time? No.
Her workload was HEAVY, so calling her complacent is rather ignorant?

You can replace complacent with either too trusting or too confident.

What happened to the Sailor Stars Anime is related to her participation in the Super S Movie, she could have decided to just approve it and not participate in it, she got too confident that her drafts would be accepted easily by TOEI, plus her participation there likely burned her bridges with Ikuhara.

The basic plot of the first three arcs of the 90s anime is similar to the Manga despite the filler.

Besides that, she rewrote the draft of the majority of the plot of Stars Manga after the Anime plot was finalized so it was different from the plot originally planned from the Materials Collection, if the Anime of Sailor Stars followed her original draft like the first three arcs did, I doubt if the current plot of the Stars manga would exist.
 
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SILVER

Aurorae Lunares
Jan 7, 2014
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#67
You can replace complacent with either too trusting or too confident.

What happened to the Sailor Stars Anime is related to her participation in the Super S Movie, she could have decided to just approve it and not participate in it, she got too confident that her drafts would be accepted easily by TOEI, plus her participation there likely burned her bridges with Ikuhara.

The basic plot of the first three arcs of the 90s anime is similar to the Manga despite the filler.

Besides that, she rewrote the draft of the majority of the plot of Stars Manga after the Anime plot was finalized so it was different from the plot originally planned from the Materials Collection, if the Anime of Sailor Stars followed her original draft like the first three arcs did, I doubt if the current plot of the Stars manga would exist.
Yeah, i got it. You repeat this in several threads, but that's not the point that I'm making: YOU assume that Naoko is "too trusting/lenient/confident/__" because somehow you've rationalized that it would've made the Stars arc of the manga/anime better and so you project.

Regardless of what she did do or didn't, NOBODY knows her feelings and motivations for any of her choices or the pressure that she must've been under at that time. If she flubbed it, she was simply too worked and exhausted after investing 5 years of her life into a project, constantly.
 
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#68
Yeah, i got it. You repeat this in several threads, but that's not the point that I'm making: YOU assume that Naoko is "too trusting/lenient/confident/__" because somehow you've rationalized that it would've made the Stars arc of the manga/anime better and so you project.

Regardless of what she did do or didn't, NOBODY knows her feelings and motivations for any of her choices or the pressure that she must've been under at that time. If she flubbed it, she was simply too worked and exhausted after investing 5 years of her life into a project, constantly.
Yes, that is true, but I was implying that she allowed herself to be manipulated by TOEI and she has a part in what happened to her in Sailor Stars and PQ Angels, I think she deserves better than that.


I think the best thing she can do to prevent the mess in Sailor Stars is not participating in the Super S movie.
 
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SILVER

Aurorae Lunares
Jan 7, 2014
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#70
If Ikuhara is in the 90s Sailor Stars
-We would have Sailor Moon in Eternal form in the Sailor Stars Neherenia Arc and in the end of Super S
-Full Redemption of the Amazon Trio at the end of Super S.
-The other Senshi would have upgraded to Eternal forms at the end of Neherenia Arc
-We would have Elios or at least a mention of him in Neherenia Arc
-Neherenia still gets redeemed.
-All the Animamates would have been in the series
-No Sexchange for the Starlights and they will die if the Sailor Quartet is a part of the Starlights Arc
-Larger role for Sailor Cosmos in Stars Arc manga and Sailor Stars Starlights Arc anime - think of PGSM Princess Sailor Moon.
-Galaxia likely gets sealed in the end by Sailor Cosmos/Sailor Moon in the end prior to the wedding in both Anime Sailor Stars Starlights Arc and Manga Stars Arc because she is Sailor Chaos - this is a repeat of Saturn's sacrifice in S/Inferno but this time it is Usagi who sacrifices herself sealing Galaxia.
citations needed
 
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#71
citations needed

Earlier post retracted.
Those are just my opinions.
I think regarding the ending of Super S are just my opinions since I tend to think Ikuhara changed the ending of Super S since he will not be working in the next arc.

The anime of Stars have a different preproduction plot because Naoko has a different plot in mind for Stars then, prior to writing act 51, the final anime have elements of that planned plot.

Sailor Moon - Materials Collection
you can see the section on Galaxia - She was supposed to be Sailor Chaos
and the changed scenes in the anime version.
Deleted and Altered Scenes from the 90s Anime?

The ending of Super S was changed, we were supposed to have ESM in 166, this means in the second half of the dream arc anime version we could have ESM throughout and Elios returns on Sailor Stars or at least mentioned, the Eternal Fuku upgrade of the rest of the Senshi in Neherenia arc was supposed to happen as well, the supposed anime Eternal Fukus with Wrist Ribbons was featured on the Title Page of Act 48 of the Manga.
Deleted and Altered Scenes from the 90s Anime?
Deleted and Altered Scenes from the 90s Anime?

This is the quote from the fourth artbook
“The nine soldiers here are all drawn in ink of their respective colors. They were then thinly colored in marker. Sailor Moon’s lines are in .05 milli black pigment. In almost all the monochrome and color manuscripts, this .05 milli black pigment was used. The nine new costumes were certainly used in the anime
Sailor Moon Original Picture Collection Vol. IV – Sailormusic.net
 
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#72
I think Sailor Stars Neherenia Arc(167-172) might have been better if Ikuhara did not scrap Eternal Sailor Moon and the return of Amazon Trio in episode 166.
 
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#73
The main problem is not redemption or kill, it's that how you show the characters.

The manga overall made most of the villains as bland monster, Demande, Phantom Ace and Galaixa were all killed but overall their characterization is fine, and Crystal made Demande's ending more convincing.

The anime did a good job on most of the villains' characterization other than a few like Beryl or Galaxia. Manga Beryl had more promise but still didn't execute too well.
Demande's ending in Crystal was abysmal compared to the manga, it tried to give him a slightly more sympathetic end but not making him sympathetic in the slightest (he's still only shielding Moon from Death Phantom so that he could kill her himself) while also robbing Usagi of her agency defeating him herself.
 
Apr 1, 2020
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#74
Demande's ending in Crystal was abysmal compared to the manga, it tried to give him a slightly more sympathetic end but not making him sympathetic in the slightest (he's still only shielding Moon from Death Phantom so that he could kill her himself) while also robbing Usagi of her agency defeating him herself.
Why? In the manga he was mad at Wiseman, especially after he forced him to kill his brother and found that he had been tricked all long. He also showed some respect to Sailor Moon deep down.

It makes no sense for him to side with Wiseman trying to kill Sailor Moon first.

Crystal gave a more fitful ending to him, he hated Wiseman more than Sailor Moon. Also deep down he did like NQS and knew that what he did was monstrous, it was all his twisted obsession truly mean. The only problem is that there should have been some inner conflict to let him recover from the madness of killing everyone.
 
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#75
Why? In the manga he was mad at Wiseman, especially after he forced him to kill his brother and found that he had been tricked all long. He also showed some respect to Sailor Moon deep down.

It makes no sense for him to side with Wiseman trying to kill Sailor Moon first.

Crystal gave a more fitful ending to him, he hated Wiseman more than Sailor Moon. Also deep down he did like NQS and knew that what he did was monstrous, it was all his twisted obsession truly mean. The only problem is that there should have been some inner conflict to let him recover from the madness of killing everyone.
In the manga he went insane and was trying to destroy everything, so him trying to personally kill Sailor Moon himself makes sense, since again, he's supposed to be not in his right mind at that point.

And no, he never "truly liked NQS" he saw her as nothing but a conquest to conquer, in fact he was always planning to kill her from the start, just wanted to rape her first as a display of power.

He hated her and saw her as a tyrant of power who was going against "God's natural course" and forcing longevity on humanity, him sexually forcing himself on her was more meant to completely and utterly break her and show his dominance, not because he craved her love like in the 90's anime & musicals.

Rape/Sexual assault is almost never about love/attraction but about power.

Manga!Demande is not meant to be woobiefied and there's nothing to woobify with him.
 
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#77
In the manga he went insane and was trying to destroy everything, so him trying to personally kill Sailor Moon himself makes sense, since again, he's supposed to be not in his right mind at that point.
And that was because Wiseman forced him kill Saphir and revealed that he was just a tool.

So his first goal was to kill Wiseman, not Sailor Moon.

And no, he never "truly liked NQS" he saw her as nothing but a conquest to conquer, in fact he was always planning to kill her from the start, just wanted to rape her first as a display of power.

He hated her and saw her as a tyrant of power who was going against "God's natural course" and forcing longevity on humanity, him sexually forcing himself on her was more meant to completely and utterly break her and show his dominance, not because he craved her love like in the 90's anime & old musicals.
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Do you know why? Why did he want to conquer NQS and felt so pissed off about her gaze?

Because he knew that deep down, she was right about him. He was a monster for doing so, but he tried so hard to deny that by using force on NQS and Usagi, to conquer them to show that he was right. But he had to accept it.

Even the manga showed part of his thoughts and struggle here.







Manga!Demande is not meant to be woobiefied and there's nothing to woobify with him.
Manga Demande was a interesting character, and it's more about is he good or bad, but his fitful ending.
 
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#78
And that was because Wiseman forced him kill Saphir and revealed that he was just a tool.

So his first goal was to kill Wiseman, not Sailor Moon.



Do you know why? Why did he want to conquer NQS and felt so pissed off about her gaze?

Because he knew that deep down, she was right about him. He was a monster for doing so, but he tried so hard to deny that by using force on NQS and Usagi, to conquer them to show that he was right. But he had to accept it.

Even the manga showed part of his thoughts and struggle here.








Manga Demande was a interesting character, and it's more about is he good or bad, but his fitful ending.
I agree with all this but he's still an outright evil character, there's no moral grey zone with someone who strangles a child to death. He can still be an interesting character while being bad to the bone with no shades of morally grey.

NQS saw him as a monster because he is a monster, she was right on that front, he's not someone meant to be sympathized with.

And yes, he eventually grew to respect NQS, that doesn't mean he suddenly loved her, you can still respect someone you hate. In both the manga & Crystal he still desires to kill her at the end. (And actually you could argue Crystal arguably paints him in even a worse light in this respect since he did come off as saner in his last moments yet even still wanted to kill Usagi)
 
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Apr 1, 2020
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#79
I agree with all this but he's still an outright evil character, there's no moral grey zone with someone who strangles a child to death. He can still be an interesting character while being bad to the bone with no shades of morally grey.

NQS saw him as a monster because he is a monster, she was right on that front, he's not someone meant to be sympathized with.

And yes, he eventually grew to respect NQS, that doesn't me he suddenly loved her, you can still respect someone you hate. In both the manga & Crystal he still desires to kill her at the end. (And actually you could argue Crystal arguably paints him in even a worse light in this respect since he did come off as saner in his last moments yet even still wanted to kill Usagi)
And he did die in the end, what's wrong with it? It's not like he didn't pay for his crime. He lost his pride, his brother and his goal, got tricked and killed by Wiseman. Nor did anyone say that he was a good guy. I don't see how Crystal was whitewashing him at all.

Yes what he did was monstrous, but he also was a evil human being. It's all about the struggle that was originally in him. That's why he felt like a character instead of just a tool like most of the SM manga villains. Same for Galaxia.

Evil doesn't mean the character could only do bad things without personality or change, that's exactly why most of the SM villains fail to impress ppl. It's not because they are evil or not redeemed, but because they don't feel like a character.
 
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#80
I suspect if Ikuhara stayed in the anime we would have Neherenia still being redeemed due to her backstory and Galaxia ending up being the boss of all Usagi's enemies in both the anime and manga and ends up being sealed, which I think is the one implied on her entry on the Materials collection.