Is the Chibiusa hate a western thing?

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Jul 5, 2009
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#42
Haters or antis of a show/character can still be considered as a certain type of fans, who may be called "hating fans" or "anti fans," of that show/character, because they also always pay big attention to that show/character & take much of their efforts & time for the show/character. :wink:
Aren't these anti-fans prevalent in South Korea specifically in Kpop? :question:

Y'know the one's that form a blob to start the so called black ocean. I forgot what's they're called so I can't key it in google's search engine. ^_^'

SNSD experienced this black ocean more than a decade ago before going international and look at them now.
 

Rika-Chicchi

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May 7, 2009
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#43
Aren't these anti-fans prevalent in South Korea specifically in Kpop? :question:

Y'know the one's that form a blob to start the so called black ocean. I forgot what's they're called so I can't key it in google's search engine. ^_^'

SNSD experienced this black ocean more than a decade ago before going international and look at them now.
Anti fans are good for their targets of hatred, because they help stir up attention to & discussions on the latter. :)
 
Jul 5, 2009
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#44
Yes. Like the way Netflix advertises these days. Getting the anti-Woke mob triggered in Twitter and Youtube. :googly:

I actually just recently watched Resident Evil Welcome To Raccoon City. Unpopular opinion but I thought it was good. Not the best (that belongs to Resident Evil Afterlife) but I prefer this first reboot rather than Milla's first film. I understand the dislike for it by these anti-fans of anything that changes the source material. I'm still struggling with this bi-racial Jill. I actually liked the Indian actor for Leon which I hated at first finding out they changed the character's race. He is just poorly written in the film but his character is open to development if ever there is a sequel for this. The problem with the film is that it has too many protagonists. If Sony can release Morbius a second time I think we might see a sequel to this.
 

MariaTenebre

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Jul 22, 2009
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#47
Anti fans should have no place in a fandom. They should be Sailor Pluto gatekept out of all the fandoms they truly hate. We have seen what happens when anti fans get a hold of series in the West like comics, video games etc. They destroy and "deconstruct" it.
 

Mystical Moonbow

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Nov 10, 2016
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In Santa’s Sleigh
#48
You know, people can talk about much they dislike that version of a character all they like, but at the end of the day, I’d say the TV execs and producers did their job because y’all still talking about them decades later even more so than your favorite version of them. Whether it’s positive or negative talk, you’re still drawing more attention to them and making them more important. Mission accomplished.
 

MariaTenebre

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Jul 22, 2009
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#49
You know, people can talk about much they dislike that version of a character all they like, but at the end of the day, I’d say the TV execs and producers did their job because y’all still talking about them decades later even more so than your favorite version of them. Whether it’s positive or negative talk, you’re still drawing more attention to them and making them more important. Mission accomplished.
I'm not even talking about how certain people dislike certain characters. Rose dosen't like Mamoru and I have myself called him out in how silly his dislike is but he is not a anti fan. He loves the series alot. Anti fans are basically fans who not only don't like but hate these series but for some reason are obsessed about them and in many cases want to drastically alter, destroy and deconstruct the series. Pretty much what the anti fans who now run series like Marvel, DC and certain video games are now doing IE trying to destroy these series for being "problematic." Many of these writers are at best like some of the worst cringe fanfic writers who make pretty much their own My Immortal version of these series and destroy the classic characters. These people should be gatekept out of all of these fandoms.
 
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Mystical Moonbow

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Nov 10, 2016
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#51
I'm not even talking about how certain people dislike certain characters. Rose dosen't like Mamoru and I have myself called him out in how silly his dislike is but he is not a anti fan. He loves the series alot. Anti fans are basically fans who not only don't like but hate these series but for some reason are obsessed about them and in many cases want to drastically alter, destroy and deconstruct the series. Pretty much what the anti fans who now run series like Marvel, DC and certain video games are now doing IE trying to destroy these series for being "problematic." Many of these writers are at best like some of the worst cringe fanfic writers who make pretty much their own My Immortal version of these series and destroy the classic characters. These people should be gatekept out of all of these fandoms.
I know, but I’m not talking about anti-fans, so my point still stands. People tend to talk about the versions of characters they don’t like more than the ones they actually do like. Some may not like some of the portrayals of these characters yet they’re still being discussed decades later. They definitely left a mark and a legacy whether they liked that character or not.

Many people, for example, dislike how Tuxedo Mask was portrayed in the 90’s anime, but he’s still iconic and left a legacy. Look at Delicious Party Precure emulating him with the character Black Pepper and other anime having their Tuxedo Mask like the Blue Knight or online YouTube videos making references to him and his rose-throwing (Tuxedo Flask).

As for Chibiusa, the same could almost be said about her since most seem to talk about the version they don’t like about her more than the one people claim to like more. You may not like 90’s Chibiusa, but she sure brings a lot more discussion for most whether it’s negative or positive
 
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Jul 5, 2009
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#52
There's a big difference about talking something they dislike than having one hater or anti-fan make a really terrible fan fic worst than 'The Boys' comic series. That fan fic was titled 'Chibiusa's 7th Birthday' where :chibiusa: gets raped by everyone. That's just not normal. :umno: And this was a time before that furry & MLP fandoms had that controversial Discord server.

Never read it. Just some poor soul here who've read it and shared that information years ago. Bless his/her soul.
 
Jun 17, 2019
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#53
There's a big difference about talking something they dislike than having one hater or anti-fan make a really terrible fan fic worst than 'The Boys' comic series. That fan fic was titled 'Chibiusa's 7th Birthday' where :chibiusa: gets raped by everyone. That's just not normal. :umno: And this was a time before that furry & MLP fandoms had that controversial Discord server.

Never read it. Just some poor soul here who've read it and shared that information years ago. Bless his/her soul.
I can only hope to GOD that was a troll fic.
 
Jun 17, 2019
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#54
Probably, 90s crew wanted to avoid tangled feminine and incestuous expressions. Manga Chibiusa was mature spirit trapped in a child's body and didn't trust Usagi even knowing who is her mother, She subconsciously felt she was in treated unfairly as Princess and entitled to take property of her mother. The property here include her father and has an incestuous meaning.
Which is funny considering they made Demande/Saphir incestous when they weren’t in the Manga and still kept the scene of Chibi-Usa kissing Mamoru (albeit only in an illusion.)

But I understand how two brothers around the same age who aren’t even confirmed to be biological brothers is very different from the incest between a father and his underage daughter, especially when you consider that the 90’s anime included a younger audience (i.e. preschoolers) compared to the manga’s slightly older one.
 
Jun 17, 2019
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#55
Yes, Maybe, They wanted to express Saphir's hatred for NQS and his loyalty to Demande in a different way.
lol Manga Saphir was hardly loyal to Demande, he was planning to backstab him and retake the whole Operation at a moment’s notice, the fact that he so easily turned on him upon putting on the Black Crystal Earrings (when no one else in the Clan who was wearing them did) shows he always secretly hated him, there is no love lost between the Black Moon Brothers in Naoko’s version.

Of course Ikuhara would want to change this since the guy loves adding queer and incestuous stuff to practically every show he makes.


Frankly, 90s's plot would have been impossible to reproduce the Manga's Black Moon arc. So I think they need changed a lot from Manga.
Manga BMC hated Silver Crystal's magic and said "we wish I didn't have this stuff". 90s Usagi was afraid of attacks to aimed Silver Crystal, she said "I wish I didn't have this stuff" at Classic. Their interests are aligned, no need to antagonize them.
Yes Manga Black Moon arc was much too mature of a plot to show to preschoolers since it introduced such philosophical questions on the ethics of immortality and painted the BMC as a religious extremist terrorist death cult. Whereas 90’s anime BMC are more just victims of racial discrimination and prejudice which is still a pretty heavy subject but still appropriate to show to preschoolers compared to the Manga’s touching on complex subject matters concerning ethics, religion and the nature of man.
 
Jun 17, 2019
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#56
Manga Saphir hated Demande? He may have had a complex about Demande's charisma, but he respected Demande as leader. His feeling about Demande may be similar to Chibiusa's feel to NQS.
Saphir did not wearing Black Crystal because didn't believe in Wiseman. he hates NQS and Wiseman because they have led his brother made crazy.
That’s the feeling I got considering he immediately attacked Demande as soon as he put on the earrings, also in the Manga/Crystal he was never suspicious of Wiseman like he was in the 90’s anime and allowed Wiseman to manipulate him in the end.


Oddly enough, in 90s Chibiusa and Saphir share the same incestuous feelings
Yes but her incestuous feelings were quite toned down compared to the manga, actually rather odd considering this is Ikuhara we’re talking about, but when you look at Utena maybe it’s not that strange since he seems to have a grudge against heterosexual incest in particular so maybe the 90’s anime younger age demographic wouldn’t allow him to deconstruct Chibi-Usa’s Electra Complex as much as he would’ve liked so he just toned it down instead?
 
Jun 17, 2019
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#57
Umm, Maybe it is like Black Lady? or If Wiseman had the ability to amplify person's malice....
Or more likely since he was just meant to be MOTD-fodder Naoko was rather inconsistent with his characterization and didn’t depict him much beyond “psycho mad scientist.” Galaxia, Beryl, Kaitou Ace, Sailors Lethe/Mneosyne and Black Lady are the only well-written villains in the manga. (And to some extent Demande, Kunzite and Rubeus as well, though the former is more just well-written in a pure evil sort of way.)

Yes Ikuhara certainly depicts incest a lot, but I think it is meant to express ultimate unrewarded love. He wrote romances between people sibling-like,
It feels like the incest between Demande & Saphir in the 90’s anime is meant to be viewed more positive or at least neutral compared to the sibling incest in Utena though, maybe because it’s gay incest and Ikuhara has a soft spot for anything queer?

Some Ikuhara characters give up they first love and accept loves from other, and Chibiusa is that type.
Or maybe Saphir with Petz was meant to be this type as well?




but he treated incest between parent and child as an abuse in Penguin Drum.
Also in Utena when Touga was sexually abused by his adoptive father, though not blood related.
 
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Rika-Chicchi

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#59
Hate of Chibi-Usa in Japan is directly linked to the plummeting birth rates. The current female adults of Japan realized how horrible motherhood would be by watching 90s Sailor Moon and are instead investing their time and money into expensive bags, shoes, and cars instead of on families and kids. :P
And pets such as dogs too - it's not unusual to see strollers not carrying human babies but pets in the streets nowadays. XD

Over here we often say the daughter is actually the lover of her father in their past lives, so maybe this could also apply on Chibiusa & Mamoru? lol