Is Toei regretting Crystal's initial concept?

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Jun 17, 2019
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And Fujoshis as well.
I do find it interesting that while the 90’s anime is frequently touted as having a more “male perspective” ( due to it’s toning down of the Miracle Romance and overly Shojo tone/elements, more fanservice etc) and is the version that has the most straight male fans it’s also simultaneously the version that seemed to be equally trying to appeal to the straight female gaze. Keep in mind, the 90’s anime was the one that invented all the gay/bi male characters and couples, when in the manga they were likely all straight and there was barely a hint of BL/Yaoi subtext. So it appears to me that despite the claims that the Manga (and Crystal by extension) is more “female-friendly” and lacks the unnecessary male pandering fanservice like the panty shots, it also lacks that “manservice” that helps attract the Fujoshi audience. (One could make the argument Mamoru himself is the manga’s own form of “manservice” seeing as how he’s written in the image of Naoko’s ideal man but I digress)

So I would say that the 90’s anime attempted to court both genders equally and one isn’t necessarily favored over the other. Heck, even the Manga has it’s own male-appealing elements such as few relevant male characters, (perfect for the harem fans to treat Mamoru as their own self-insert) yuri & het ships galore but no yaoi, and much more intense DBZ level power-level grinding/upgrades than the 90’s anime ever got. Even it’s darker tone and the Stars arc being the Proto-Madoka in a lot of ways would appeal more to the average male anime fan who doesn’t care so much for the “regular, positive Mahou Shojo” and only likes grimdark, subversive, deconstructive Mahou Shojo.
 
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Masquerade

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Wasn’t that just because of Crystal’s previous poor quality combined with Covid? Sailor Moon is clearly still popular enough to get Usagi to serve as one of the Mascots for the Tokyo Olympics, get it’s own ride at Japan’s Universal Studios and even host Sailor Moon themed only conventions! (One is actually taking place right now today, called エア月華, online only on Twitter though due to Covid)

Is Sailor Moon not looked on fondly by adults in Japan as a nostalgic favorite and a classic similiar to other genre defining Shojo’s like Candy Candy, Rose of Versailles, Hana Yori Dango and anything by the 49ers?
Yes, it is.
But COVID didn't prevent the Demon Slayer and Evangelion movies from being extremely successful, so the reasons that lead Eternal to be a "flop" indicates that it just didn't gather a lot of interest.
 
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Yes, it is.
But COVID didn't prevent the Demon Slayer and Evangelion movies from being extremely successful, so the reasons that lead Eternal to be a "flop" indicates that it just didn't gather a lot of interest.
Was it perhaps because of Crystal starting off on the wrong foot soured the public’s perception of it? Or maybe because Crysternal is a manga adaptation and the 90’s anime is more popular in Japan than the Manga while the latter isn’t looked back on as fondly?
 

kasumigenx

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I do find it interesting that while the 90’s anime is frequently touted as having a more “male perspective” ( due to it’s toning down of the Miracle Romance and overly Shojo tone/elements, more fanservice etc) and is the version that has the most straight male fans it’s also simultaneously the version that seemed to be equally trying to appeal to the straight female gaze. Keep in mind, the 90’s anime was the one that invented all the gay/bi male characters and couples, when in the manga they were likely all straight and there was barely a hint of BL/Yaoi subtext. So it appears to me that despite the claims that the Manga (and Crystal by extension) is more “female-friendly” and lacks the unnecessary male pandering fanservice like the panty shots, it also lacks that “manservice” that helps attract the Fujoshi audience. (One could make the argument Mamoru himself is the manga’s own form of “manservice” seeing as how he’s written in the image of Naoko’s ideal man but I digress)

So I would say that the 90’s anime attempted to court both genders equally and one isn’t necessarily favored over the other. Heck, even the Manga has it’s own male-appealing elements such as few relevant male characters, (perfect for the harem fans to treat Mamoru as their own self-insert) yuri & het ships galore but no yaoi, and much more intense DBZ level power-level grinding/upgrades than the 90’s anime ever got. Even it’s darker tone and the Stars arc being the Proto-Madoka in a lot of ways would appeal more to the average male anime fan who doesn’t care so much for the “regular, positive Mahou Shojo” and only likes grimdark, subversive, deconstructive Mahou Shojo.
I think the Manga Stars is influenced by Satou.
 

kasumigenx

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How? Wasn’t all of the Manga written solely by Naoko and Osabu?
Since the Sailor Stars season was originally planned to have Galaxia as the one-dimensional villain in both the anime and manga similar to other major villains in the manga, and Neherenia was to be redeemed in the anime, but Takeuchi changed Galaxia's backstory in the manga, later on, to be similar to Anime Neherenia later on and another influence from Satou I think would be Cosmos.
 
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Since the Sailor Stars season was originally planned to have Galaxia as the one-dimensional villain in both the anime and manga similar to other major villains in the manga, and Neherenia was to be redeemed in the anime, but Takeuchi changed Galaxia's backstory in the manga, later on, to be similar to Anime Neherenia later on and another influence from Satou I think would be Cosmos.
What are you talking about?
 

kasumigenx

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What are you talking about?
Whatever they have been talking about ever since they became active on here... I will go to the galaxy cauldron for this - but some people have one topic they can repeat to nausea.
I am basically saying that redemption of villains is not the thing of Takeuchi, Takeuchi does not redeem Villains especially the main bad, it's more of TOEI which is Tomita and Satou and Galaxia was originally planned to be Sailor Chaos according to the Materials Collection so she was not originally planned to have any redeeming qualities similar to Manga Neherenia and Mistress 9.
 
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sapphire91

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I am basically saying that redemption of villains is not the thing of Takeuchi, Takeuchi does not redeem Villains especially the main bad, it's more of TOEI which is Tomita and Satou and Galaxia was originally planned to be Sailor Chaos according to the Materials Collection so she was not originally planned to have any redeeming qualities similar to Manga Neherenia and Mistress 9.
And she didn't redeem Galaxia, not in the sense 90s show redeemed the villains. You are basing your thesis around 10000 times on a concept published in the Materials collection that has many unrealized concepts as well as concept unique to the 90s anime like the SuperS movie ones that has nothing to do with the manga. It is concept, concept change. Naoko shares a lot of her concept ideas in and outside the materials collection. You are reaching and it is ok, we all have our theories and speculations, but you share yours as if they were set in stone confirmed truth over and over and over again and it is getting redundant. No hard feelings, just like many of us have said many times - we got your point. I hope you do not get it the wrong way, but it's like a broken record.
 

kasumigenx

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And she didn't redeem Galaxia, not in the sense 90s show redeemed the villains. You are basing your thesis around 10000 times on a concept published in the Materials collection that has many unrealized concepts as well as concept unique to the 90s anime like the SuperS movie ones that has nothing to do with the manga. It is concept, concept change. Naoko shares a lot of her concept ideas in and outside the materials collection. You are reaching and it is ok, we all have our theories and speculations, but you share yours as if they were set in stone confirmed truth over and over and over again and it is getting redundant. No hard feelings, just like many of us have said many times - we got your point. I hope you do not get it the wrong way, but it's like a broken record.
Yes, I am also pointing out that the Stars Manga plot was finalized after the 90s Anime plot was finalized, and Stars was influenced by Satou due to the use of complex villains i.e. Galaxia and Cosmos, and prior to Stars, Takeuchi seems to make her own ideas as long as it is approved by Osabu and she did not use what she had learned from the people she worked with.
 
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Yes, I am also pointing out that the Stars Manga plot was finalized after the 90s Anime plot was finalized, and Stars was influenced by Satou due to the use of complex villains i.e. Galaxia and Cosmos, and prior to Stars, Takeuchi seems to make her own ideas as long as it is approved by Osabu and she did not use what she had learned from the people she worked with.
We have absolutly no idea about the chronology in which each version's scenario was finalized. Notes in the material works artbook have just vague ideas because it's very likely that Takeuchi herself didn't know where her story would exactly go. She complained a lot that the anime didn't follow the manga closely but anime episodes have to be planned months ahead and she probably didn't have her full script ready for her own manga at the begining of each arc anyway. She wasn't strong enough to deal with a long term series that was so popular (I'm not saying that to be offending btw) and didn't have enough time to think ahead her story, the one year = one arc was totally insane rhythm and explains why most of the story and characters are not very well developped.

Iin my opinion, Stars is anyway a total mystery: they rebranded the whole series and changed the title (Stars copyright is btw distinct from the first seasons). It made people think at this time the series would take a new turn and go on for several years... But in the end they quickly announced that this would be the last season, which isn't very coherent with how they branded Stars at the begining. I suspect they changed their mind about SM future very quickly near the begining, and that was not planed.
 

Masquerade

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We have absolutly no idea about the chronology in which each version's scenario was finalized. Notes in the material works artbook have just vague ideas because it's very likely that Takeuchi herself didn't know where her story would exactly go. She complained a lot that the anime didn't follow the manga closely but anime episodes have to be planned months ahead and she probably didn't have her full script ready for her own manga at the begining of each arc anyway. She wasn't strong enough to deal with a long term series that was so popular (I'm not saying that to be offending btw) and didn't have enough time to think ahead her story, the one year = one arc was totally insane rhythm and explains why most of the story and characters are not very well developped.

Iin my opinion, Stars is anyway a total mystery: they rebranded the whole series and changed the title (Stars copyright is btw distinct from the first seasons). It made people think at this time the series would take a new turn and go on for several years... But in the end they quickly announced that this would be the last season, which isn't very coherent with how they branded Stars at the begining. I suspect they changed their mind about SM future very quickly near the begining, and that was not planed.
Didn't they announce Stars as the last season from the get-go? I remember seeing a English thread on alt-fan from around 1996, before the actual premiere of Stars, saying Sailor Moon was getting its last season.
 

Seira Hazuki

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Yes, I am also pointing out that the Stars Manga plot was finalized after the 90s Anime plot was finalized, and Stars was influenced by Satou due to the use of complex villains i.e. Galaxia and Cosmos, and prior to Stars, Takeuchi seems to make her own ideas as long as it is approved by Osabu and she did not use what she had learned from the people she worked with.
You need to stop making up things or at least provide sources for your claims.
 
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Didn't they announce Stars as the last season from the get-go? I remember seeing a English thread on alt-fan from around 1996, before the actual premiere of Stars, saying Sailor Moon was getting its last season.
I don't know when they exactly announced that it would be the last season, near the begining of Stars I think, yes ? (from my country, infos were hard to find at this time).
But it's really weird to change the whole series title, start a purposedly new copyright, change theme song and most of the staff (but it's another subject), for a season that is supposed to be the last from the start of the production, in my opinion.
 

kasumigenx

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We have absolutly no idea about the chronology in which each version's scenario was finalized. Notes in the material works artbook have just vague ideas because it's very likely that Takeuchi herself didn't know where her story would exactly go. She complained a lot that the anime didn't follow the manga closely but anime episodes have to be planned months ahead and she probably didn't have her full script ready for her own manga at the begining of each arc anyway. She wasn't strong enough to deal with a long term series that was so popular (I'm not saying that to be offending btw) and didn't have enough time to think ahead her story, the one year = one arc was totally insane rhythm and explains why most of the story and characters are not very well developped.

Iin my opinion, Stars is anyway a total mystery: they rebranded the whole series and changed the title (Stars copyright is btw distinct from the first seasons). It made people think at this time the series would take a new turn and go on for several years... But in the end they quickly announced that this would be the last season, which isn't very coherent with how they branded Stars at the begining. I suspect they changed their mind about SM future very quickly near the begining, and that was not planed.
Her initial plans for Galaxia were the ones she had put in the Materials Collection, at least, that is what I know.
So the 5th Season of Crystal will be very much new Material at least after they meet Kakyuu and Chibi Chibi.


You need to stop making up things or at least provide sources for your claims.
I do and that is the Materials Collection and Blue Ray notes...

Regarding the Satou influences, it is just based on my observation.


I don't know when they exactly announced that it would be the last season, near the begining of Stars I think, yes ? (from my country, infos were hard to find at this time).
But it's really weird to change the whole series title, start a purposedly new copyright, change theme song and most of the staff (but it's another subject), for a season that is supposed to be the last from the start of the production, in my opinion.
It is indeed.
 
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Jun 17, 2019
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Iin my opinion, Stars is anyway a total mystery: they rebranded the whole series and changed the title (Stars copyright is btw distinct from the first seasons).
Was Stars having always meant to be a soft reboot the reason why there’s a total absence of all the established civilian characters? No wonder it felt off.