Queen Serenity Stars arc

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Mar 8, 2012
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#41
Here's the page in question, from Act 20:


LINK
(I compared MD's translation to the Tokyopop translation and they're basically the same, so I think we can trust it to be accurate.)

According to that page, people of the Silver Millennium live around 1,000 years. Mamoru is able to enjoy that same lifespan and otherwise benefit from the Silver Crystal's powers because he married into Silver Millennium royal family, and everyone in Crystal Tokyo likewise enjoys a rough millennium-lifespan. Clearly at this point in the story, Naoko thought that such a lifespan was uniquely long, and then never realized that characters like Helios and Lead Crow contradict that by having far greater lifespans. (It's an editor's job to catch things like that, so I'm gonna blame Osabu for this a smidge more than Naoko.)

Also, from this page we know that Usagi became queen and had Chibiusa at age 22, and this occurred in the 21st century. This means Usagi is at least 21 at the end of Stars (assuming the timeline hasn't been drastically changed, which I suppose could well be the case?). She's 16 at the start of Stars, so that's at least a five year period left unaccounted for. Also, assuming she became queen as early in the 21st century as possible (in 2001), this means Usagi had to have been born no earlier than 1979, not 1978 as is so often given by fans as her birth year. (Unless you want to consider 2000 the first year of the 21st century, but as there was no year 0, that would be an incorrect consideration.)
 
Sep 14, 2017
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#43
I think that exhibit was based on the coronation scene from the end of the Dream arc, where Usagi (as NQS) has the Eternal Tier.
Color me disappointed! I hoped it was a change they made, now I'm mildly annoyed that NQS doesn't have the Eternal Tiare in the Stars Arc as well.



After their little murder/suicide thing at the end of the Dark Kingdom arc, Usagi's and Mamoru's corpses are enshrined in Silver Crystal, so that seems to be an established power/property.
Did NQS still have her crystal when she was hit during the Black Moon attack? That would definitely indicate some kind of protective power on the crystal's part. It's kinda cool to think about the crystal having the function of encasing it's owner in crystal as a means of protection.




I mean... We kept hearing that if Saturn dropped her scythe, the world would be destroyed. She dropped her scythe and...everything seemed fine? There was some destruction, but no more than always accompanies these ultimate showdowns. So yeah, I think her powers were just overstated.
It's definitely a goof on Naoko's part but now we have to connect the dots and fix the plot holes for her lol :lol: I'd like to think that Saturn did something to ensure that parts of Silver Millenium would remain preserved instead of being completely destroyed, it would play into the 'rebirth' aspect of her abilities. If she destroyed everything, Sailor Moon wouldn't have been able to meet Queen Serenity via the crystal's computers. But then why would she have died? Does Saturn die because she's fulfilled her purpose, or because her powers wipe out everything (including herself)? What a massive plot hole jeez.


Thinking about this some more... Queen Serenity does just vaguely mention that Moon People have "longevity." I think it's only Crystal Tokyo people who are said to live for around 1000 years. Given that, for instance, Lead Crow has existed since the Silver Millennium was still thriving, she must be thousands (perhaps even millions) of years old. This would be the case, too, for other characters like Pluto and Helios. So if such extreme lifespans are so unexceptional throughout the galaxy, for Queen Serenity to talk about Moon People longevity suggests their lifespan is even greater. So maybe she really is super-ultra-mega-ancient.
I've always thought of her as very very old, possibly as old as the universe itself, and that when she came to the moon and found little Baby Serenity's Sailor Crystal and the remarkable light surrounding it, she considered it to be too significant to leave alone and decided to stay and take care of her. This would conflict with her little speech in the Dark Kingdom arc.

I always ignore Naoko's 1,000-year lifespan thing, and think of the Royal Family and Senshi as living forever while the 'regular people' live for a thousand years lol. Chibiusa's already almost a thousand years old, and she's still a kid.
 
Mar 8, 2012
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#44
Did NQS still have her crystal when she was hit during the Black Moon attack? That would definitely indicate some kind of protective power on the crystal's part. It's kinda cool to think about the crystal having the function of encasing it's owner in crystal as a means of protection.
Chibiusa (well, Usagi SL Serenity, to be technical) had already stolen the MnG when NQS was hit, so...maybe her body itself has the power to materialize Silver Crystal? Or that's a property of the Silver Moon Crystal rather than the MnG? Or Naoko writes things without thinking them through first.
 

sapphire91

Aurorae Lunares
Jul 6, 2018
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#45
Chibiusa (well, Usagi SL Serenity, to be technical) had already stolen the MnG when NQS was hit, so...maybe her body itself has the power to materialize Silver Crystal? Or that's a property of the Silver Moon Crystal rather than the MnG? Or Naoko writes things without thinking them through first.
Wasn't the Crystal of which the castle is made protecting them somehow? Gosh everything is as hazy as I have read it decades ago.
 

sapphire91

Aurorae Lunares
Jul 6, 2018
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#47
It's not clear if the Crystal Palace is itself made of Silver Crystal, but it is said to be protecting everyone inside it.
Maybe it protects the whole perimeter which saved NQS. Also at that point she was unable yo use it offensively anyway. So probably its healing protecting powers resides in her somehow.
 
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Sep 14, 2017
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#48
Chibiusa (well, Usagi SL Serenity, to be technical) had already stolen the MnG when NQS was hit, so...maybe her body itself has the power to materialize Silver Crystal? Or that's a property of the Silver Moon Crystal rather than the MnG? Or Naoko writes things without thinking them through first.
I don't remember if this scene differs from the anime, I know that in R the senshi are the ones that create the crystal barrier around NQS right before she's attacked. I think it's different in the manga though, so that's probably not relevant!

It could either be that the Crystal Palace did it, since it does maintain a barrier during the Black Moon arc even after Chibiusa steals the crystal, or that the crystal itself was able to protect NQS even from so far away. My guess is that it's the palace, which wouldn't be surprising since the Silver Crystal created it. I would necessarily say that it's made of Silver Crystal but definitely made by it.
 
Mar 8, 2012
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#49
From Act 20:

DIANA
……あのときこのクリスタル・パレスからほとんど外へでたことのないクイーンがひどくなにかあわてたようすで外へ出たのです.​
At that moment, the Queen, who had almost never been out of the Crystal Palace before, rushed outside looking terribly upset.​
KING ENDYMION
――そして あの爆発が――​
とつぜんの攻撃だった​
一瞬のうちにすべてがふきとばされ​
――“幻の銀水晶”でできたこのクリスタル・パレスをのこしあとは死の静寂がおとずれた​
あの一瞬 クイーンのからだはまるで守られるように またたく間にクリスタルに包まれた​
だが そばにいた四守護神の セーラーマーズ マーキュリー ジュピター ヴィーナス そしてわたしは まともに直撃をうけ たおれた​
パレスをすぐ閉鎖したけれど まるで毒ガスでもはいりこんだようにみんなつぎつぎとたおれ​
そしてわたしの娘スモール・レディとダイアナだけがなんの影響もうけず​
And then, that explosion...​
It was a serious attack.​
Everything was blown away in an instant.​
The silence of death fell heavy over all but this Crystal Palace made of the Fabulous Silver Crystal.​
The moment the Queen was hit, her body was instantly enveloped in protective crystal.​
However, the Four Guardian Goddesses, Sailor Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, and Venus, and I as well, were struck by a direct hit.​
We closed off the palace immediately, but still we all fell as though poison gas had entered.​
Only my daughter, Small Lady, and Diana were unaffected.​

So yeah, in the manga the Inners were not responsible for putting up and maintaining a protective barrier as they were also struck down. And the Crystal Palace is indeed made of the MnG (or at least the same material as the MnG? I wonder if there's like a secret MnG mine on the moon. Guess the Dark Kingdom should have gone after that instead :lol: Great, now I'm picturing a Sailor Moon and the Seven Dwarfs crossover xD)
 
Jan 17, 2007
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#50
This mess could have easily been resolved with Naoko giving a seperate name for the substance/mineral that make up the Silver Crystal, Random Crystal Coffins, Crystal Palace, etc. Silverite, Maboroshinium or even use the already real world mineral, Selenite! Like I get trying to connect all of your concepts together, but it just takes a lick of sense to make it work.

Also why does the “Fabulous” Silver Crystal sound like it belongs in a Drag parody of Sailor Moon? :lol:
 

sapphire91

Aurorae Lunares
Jul 6, 2018
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#52
For me the whole 1000 years life-span is just reserved to Crystal Tokyo. Everyone were reincarnated as humans and this is thelife-span the Crystal or rather Usagi granted the human population. But before that the girls and everyone around them were humans, who aged and died in a natural way, What their original forms life span during the Silver Millenium is unclear though, So whoever didn't get reincarnated might still live by the old rules, which might have been billions of years of life and youth. Like Serena-Hime said, the Crystal palace and the whole Crystal Tokyo was made by the Silver Crystal and the Neo Queen Serenity. Safe for the fact she cannot use the Crystal anymore, we don't know what her powers evolved to. The Crystal coffins and all that might have been her doing and not the Crystal. While the life on the planet ceased to exist, people were not actually death, so she might have protected them all. Saturn said she is the end of it all, while Sailor Moon (and not the Crystal) brings the new beginning, So probably all this was her own proper power and not the Crystal's. What I like about the Silver Millenium and the Crystal Tokyo is how open to interpretation they are and as much as I want definitive answers in a form of prequel/sequel, I believe part of the magic of the story would die with it.
 
Mar 8, 2012
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#53
I've always thought of her as very very old, possibly as old as the universe itself, and that when she came to the moon and found little Baby Serenity's Sailor Crystal and the remarkable light surrounding it, she considered it to be too significant to leave alone and decided to stay and take care of her.
Not to keep harping on this, but while going through the manga for the 10,000th time for something I'm working on at the moment, I realized that your idea that Queen Serenity was not originally from the moon may have come from what Nehellenia says in the penultimate chapter of the Dream arc:



"Silly you... You too have come from another galaxy. We share the same origin." (Tokyopop)​
"That's funny since you, too, came to this planet after wandering the galaxy. Aren't we both immigrants here?" (MissDream)​

Both translations make it sound like Queen Nehellenia is talking to Queen Serenity alone. Tokyopop has her claim Serenity is from another galaxy and MD has her say Serenity was a bit of a drifter. However, here's what the Japanese text says:

おかしなことを​
おまえたちもまた はるか彼方の銀河から この星へともたらされた者たち​
わたしたちの源は同じではないか​
That's strange.
You, too, were all brought to this star from the other side of the galaxy.
Isn't our birthplace the same?

She uses the word "omaetachi," the familiar (possibly old-fashioned?) plural you. She's saying that Serenity and the Inners are not native to the Moon/Solar System (i.e. that they all came from the Galaxy Cauldron). She also says they were brought to (the Moon), which suggests there was no choice of where they settled, but rather it was their destiny or the result of other forces.
 
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Sabrblade

Luna Crescens
Sep 13, 2009
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#54
"Omae" is a way to say the word "you" in less friendly, sort of rude manner. It's used for disrespect or antagonism, but less mean than the more insulting "kisama" or "onore".
 
Mar 8, 2012
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#55
^ Good to know. The dictionaries I was looking at just said it was familiar or "men's speech" which I thought was weird. If it can be used in a kind of derogatory way though, then that makes a lot more sense. Any way, the point is: it's the plural "you."
 
Likes: Seira Hazuki
Jan 17, 2007
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#56
Aw, Queen Serenity being a foreigner from another solar system that settled on the Moon was an interesting layer to her character (that she kinda needed as she’s boring as hell otherwise.) Sad to see that debunked.

BUT, your translation just makes a heck of a lot more sense since it’s clear that Naoko was setting up a lot of the Stars arc in the last chapters of the Dream arc.

Honestly, I’m shocked we’re discovering new stuff about the original manga decades later. Kudos to you, @MementoNepenthe
 
Mar 8, 2012
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#57
You can thank my nerdy, overly curious and compulsive mind, and twenty-five years of questionable official and unofficial translations obscuring the truth.

But yeah, Queen Serenity is pretty bland. I'd love to get a story about her when she was just a princess herself: see what she was like as a child/teenager, what her relationship with her own mother was like, etc. Maybe then she could have a personality other than "regal."
 

MariaTenebre

Lumen Cinereum
Jul 22, 2009
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#59
Well as for the lifespan thing in Crystal Tokyo it seems that regular non Senshi humans live for 1000 years however I always thought that Sailor Senshi basically live forever so long as they are not killed by an outside force as their Sailor Crystals sustain them and besides the Sailor Senshi are frequently equated as being Gods or having Divine Parentage. An example of this in the 90s anime is Sailor Galaxia who was alive since the Sailor Wars happened and I believe it was implied to have taken place before the founding of the Silver Millennium. Likewise in the manga Sailor Lead Crow and Sailor Tin Nyanko were contemporaries of Phobos and Deimos along with Luna and Artemis respectively so they had to be atleast alive since before the fall of the Silver Millennium to know their fellow denizens of Coronis and Mau respectively.
 
Mar 8, 2012
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#60
So, to recap, while the scene in general is vague and open to interpretation, the word that was giving me the most trouble was ぬけがら nukegara. This word primarily refers to a molting, such as the shed skin of a snake or the shed exoskeleton of a cicada. This seemed like a bizarre word choice to me, but given that Naoko wrote it in hiragana instead of kanji, I felt like she probably didn't mean it in such a literal sense. Official and unofficial English versions of the manga have translated the word as "shell," "husk," "cast-off shell," and "fragment," but none of those felt quite right to me.
I think I've found another piece of the puzzle...

In Guardian Cosmos's telling of Queen Serenity's visit to the Galaxy Cauldron, her use of the word nukegara (literally exuviae, shell, husk) left me baffled because it seemed like such a weird image. Taking the line literally/at face value, I just couldn't wrap my head around it. This led me to conclude the word should be translated more loosely/figuratively, as newborn or fledgling or something along those lines. Fragment, shell, and husk - the official and MissDream translations - didn't seem right. But now, I actually think MissDream's choice - husk - is correct. (Sort of.)

Today, I picked up a copy of "The Collected Poems of W. B. Yeats: A New Edition, Edited by Richard J. Finneran." This is the book Hotaru is seen reading in the Dream arc. The book opens with a quote from William Blake, whose painting "Satan in his Original Glory" inspired one of Naoko's illustrations of Super Sailor Moon:

“The stars are threshed, and the souls are threshed from their husks.”​

Could Guardian Cosmos's line actually be an allusion to this quote, with which Naoko would certainly have been familiar? In light of this quote, perhaps by "husk of a star," Guardian Cosmos meant that Queen Serenity was holding a soul, or at least the raw material for making a soul. Given the use of "star seed" in this arc to essentially mean "soul," perhaps by analogy the line in question could be translated as "star pod"?

Thoughts?