Reiligion?

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Gunslinger

Lapis Lunaris
Sep 16, 2017
120
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nic.miskatonic.ml
#21
What makes you all think that Rei believe in any of those modern religions considering that her origin is Silver Millenium where none of them existed? She witnessed real miracles and she have rituals that actually work (attacks, transformations, etc), why would she believe in something else? All those religions are false anyway since they don't compatible with the world structure shown in SM (is there any mentions of star seeds and time travelling in catholicism?). The actual belief of Senshi's might be somewhat alike to that part of Greek paganism where gods were personifications of planets.
 

Mitsukara

Luna Crescens
Apr 1, 2017
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#22
To be fair, Akuryo Taisan seems like a shinto-based power, not just a Silver Millennium thing. Also, I think archery and mikos have some sort of historical connection, so Mars Flame Sniper has some thematic resonance with it. Shinto might actually have some degree of magical powers in this setting. This is also a setting with random ghosts hauntings (episode 40) and psychic powers (episode 20) that aren't even affiliated with Silver Millennium, the Dark Kingdom, etc.

It also has pink plesiosaurs in the modern day, canonically.

I'm not at all sure Sailor Moon's setting is the same as vanilla real life outside what we see of the main storyline, honestly. Also, at least in the manga, the Crystal Tokyo stuff started happening around 2000 IIRC, and that also seems like a plausible date for the cold sleep thing from the anime to have begun, so that would already be happening here in 2018.

Also, for all we know Shinto existed in the Silver Millennium days.
 

Gunslinger

Lapis Lunaris
Sep 16, 2017
120
1
0
nic.miskatonic.ml
#23
Mitsukara said:
To be fair, Akuryo Taisan seems like a shinto-based power
Show me any other shinto priestess who can use it.

Mitsukara said:
Shinto might actually have some degree of magical powers in this setting.
OK, you convinced me. Shinto looks like fun. I liked the atmosphere of Rei's shrine in the first seasons.

Mitsukara said:
This is also a setting with random ghosts hauntings (episode 40) and psychic powers (episode 20) that aren't even affiliated with Silver Millennium, the Dark Kingdom, etc.
Neither with any specific religion.

Mitsukara said:
It also has pink plesiosaurs in the modern day, canonically.
What's wrong with pink plesiosaurs?

Mitsukara said:
Also, for all we know Shinto existed in the Silver Millennium days.
Interesting, any proofs?
 

Mitsukara

Luna Crescens
Apr 1, 2017
485
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#24
For clarification, I was not advocating for any religion. I do not represent any religion except servitude of Queen Metallia, bwa hah ha! [sie=10](Okay not really, Queen Metallia is terrible. But don't tell her I said that or she'll kill me!)[/size]

Gunslinger said:
Show me any other shinto priestess who can use it.
None, and somehow Minako used it in the manga. But that style of ofuda ward is definitely a real life Shinto ritual thing, it just doesn't usually have this kind of effect in real life (possibly due to a lack of confirmed demonic activity in real life XD ).

Rei's grandpa was able to do some kind of energy blast thing to delay his transformation into Jiji by Zoisite, which left a crater in the roof and surprised Zoisite, but that might just be his Great Youma powers rather than some sort of shinto spiritual purity thing.

Neither with any specific religion.
Well, no, my point was just that there's all kinds of wacky magic floating around the setting already.

What's wrong with pink plesiosaurs?
They're extinct in real life. Not only do they somehow exist in Sailor Moon, nobody makes a big deal about it (even Ami), so like, are plesiosaurs just a known thing, or what? For them to exist at all you'd think they'd need a breeding population (very likely since one is a child), or to be magic or something. It's just an example of how weird the Sailor Moon setting is compared to real life.

Interesting, any proofs?
None whatsoever, that's why I said "For all we know". I'm not advocating these positions as true, I'm just pointing out how little we know about the setting when push comes to shove.

Basically, I wasn't opposing your position (if anything I agree that being from Silver Millennium and knowing all the stuff she does would make her question the accuracy of any given claim), I'm just saying we don't really know whether or not shinto can give you powers in this setting, and that there's a lot of weird magic stuff that might be pubilc knowledge anyway. Everybody saw Rubeus' UFO and the Dead Moon Circus tent, too.
 

Gunslinger

Lapis Lunaris
Sep 16, 2017
120
1
0
nic.miskatonic.ml
#25
Mitsukara said:
But that style of ofuda ward is definitely a real life Shinto ritual thing,
Yes, but I don't really think it's the source of the power of the attack. More like an auxillary item.

Mitsukara said:
It's just an example of how weird the Sailor Moon setting is compared to real life.
I'd say real life is weird compared to Sailor Moon setting, but that's just how I see things.

Mitsukara said:
Basically, I wasn't opposing your position (if anything I agree that being from Silver Millennium and knowing all the stuff she does would make her question the accuracy of any given claim), I'm just saying we don't really know whether or not shinto can give you powers in this setting, and that there's a lot of weird magic stuff that might be pubilc knowledge anyway. Everybody saw Rubeus' UFO and the Dead Moon Circus tent, too.
Neither was I. Different kinds of magic in SM is cool and OK with me.
 

MariaTenebre

Lumen Cinereum
Jul 22, 2009
5,063
418
165
#26
For those who think she considers her faith to be nothing more then a business and she dosen't believe in it this is not true. She was definitely shown to be a believing Shinto practitioner who did the rituals and believed in the Gods which is where some of her priestess abilities come from.

Next I can kind of relate to Rei somewhat as I was a Pagan who went through a Christian home schooling program. For me it was pretty bad as the school was very fundamentalist and I didn't get a very good education via science or history and the like. It still bugs me at how faith schools are allowed to basically lie to their students and teach things that contradict mainstream science or academia etc.

Also to Gunslinger there is nothing saying that the Shinto religion is false on Sailor Moon as it is where Rei derives some of her power. It could be that the Shinto Gods actually exist in Sailor Moon. I mean Queen Serenity claims to be an incarnation of the Moon Goddess Selene and Sailor Pluto's father is the God of Time Chronos so maybe other pantheons exist also.

It would be something to explore to see how Rei's schooling might come in opposition to her spiritual faith. However I think in Japan they don't let faith schools get away with alot of things they are allowed to get away with in the West.
 

Mitsukara

Luna Crescens
Apr 1, 2017
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#27
MariaTenebre said:
Sailor Pluto's father is the God of Time Chronos
Whoa, that's pretty interesting! Where did they reveal that? Is that later in the manga somewhere, or was it in the Black Moon arc and I forgot somehow, or was it from another part of the franchise? I really ought to hurry up and finish the Infinity arc and the other two.

I do seem to recall them being fuzzy on Queen Serenity possibly being the Moon Goddess. Makes sense to me that she would be! I also am pretty sure they were implying Endymion was the actual mythological Endymion (and that Elis probably had some relation to Elysion), and the myths are just a little fuzzy on the specifics (or remembered differently/forgotten entirely in the modern Sailor Moon world). That's why for fanfiction I say his parents are Aethilus and Calyce, as that's also mentioned in Greek Mythology and they're pretty cool sounding names.

It sounds like we (MariaTenebre and I) come from somewhat similar backgrounds. I wasn't in any public school, but I was homeschooled by my parents and they taught me a lot of scientifically-inaccurate misinformation that I had to learn to question myself as I learned to research on the internet (now I'm agnostic; I try not to rule out any unproveable possibilities one way or the other, and live by making the most likely educated guesses I can). I'm really glad Wikipedia was invented, it's been a big help to me. :)
 

Rika-Chicchi

Staff member
Site Admin
May 7, 2009
37,659
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#28
^ It's always good & important to query what's been taught - even w/i science itself one should query established/current theories & knowledge in order to correct any errors or further improve/develop them. :)
 

C-17

Luna Nova
Mar 26, 2013
178
10
5
#29
MariaTenebre said:
Sailor Pluto's father is the God of Time Chronos
Although Pluto does refer to Cronos as "father" in the series, I need to point out again that it's mythologically incorrect.
Pluto/Hades' actual father is Kronos/Saturn, God of Harvest, and not Cronos/Tiempo, Incarnation of Time itself.
Naoko got the gods twisted because their names are similar.
 

Rika-Chicchi

Staff member
Site Admin
May 7, 2009
37,659
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#31
redblade7 said:
What I find strange about the whole thing is how Catholic schools aren't generally named "T-A Girls" :lol:
Actually the "T-A" part comes from this, according to WikiMoon (bolded by me):

T·A Academy for Girls was based on Tōyō Eiwa Girls' Academy, a Methodist school founded by Canadian missionaries, located in Roppongi, Minato-ku, Tokyo.
 

MariaTenebre

Lumen Cinereum
Jul 22, 2009
5,063
418
165
#32
Mitsukara said:
MariaTenebre said:
Sailor Pluto's father is the God of Time Chronos
Whoa, that's pretty interesting! Where did they reveal that? Is that later in the manga somewhere, or was it in the Black Moon arc and I forgot somehow, or was it from another part of the franchise? I really ought to hurry up and finish the Infinity arc and the other two.

I do seem to recall them being fuzzy on Queen Serenity possibly being the Moon Goddess. Makes sense to me that she would be! I also am pretty sure they were implying Endymion was the actual mythological Endymion (and that Elis probably had some relation to Elysion), and the myths are just a little fuzzy on the specifics (or remembered differently/forgotten entirely in the modern Sailor Moon world). That's why for fanfiction I say his parents are Aethilus and Calyce, as that's also mentioned in Greek Mythology and they're pretty cool sounding names.

It sounds like we (MariaTenebre and I) come from somewhat similar backgrounds. I wasn't in any public school, but I was homeschooled by my parents and they taught me a lot of scientifically-inaccurate misinformation that I had to learn to question myself as I learned to research on the internet (now I'm agnostic; I try not to rule out any unproveable possibilities one way or the other, and live by making the most likely educated guesses I can). I'm really glad Wikipedia was invented, it's been a big help to me. :)
Well Sailor Pluto refers to Chronos as being her father and others say she carries the blood of the God of Time Chronos.

As for Queen Serenity she refers to herself as an incarnation of the Moon Goddess Selene. However all three members of the Moon Matriarchy are based on Selene. Two of them even fell in love with people and Gods who were based off of the lovers of Selene. Selene was known to have 4 lovers in Greek mythology one was Zeus, another was Endymion, another was her brother Helios and finally Pan the God of the Forrest. Princess Serenity fell in love with Prince Endymion and Princess Small Lady Serenity fell in love with the Priest Helios. While I believe in the manga it was implied that Queen Serenity gave birth to Princess Serenity by the power of the Galaxy Cauldron further cementing her connections to Jesus as the Messiah. I always thought that if Queen Serenity had a lover he would be based off either Zeus or Pan.

I also had that King Aethlius was Prince Endymion's father however I had that his mother was Queen Gaia who was the previous Senshi of Earth.

Also yes we are similar in that regard. Being from the heavily Christian South both my public and homeschooling experience was rather miserable. Me personally now I am a Pagan however I am not a literalist so I accept scientific consensus.

Coincidentally on the Shinto Gods I did make Hina Kusaka from PGSM into Sailor Sun and I had that her past life form was Empress Amaterasu. I had that she was the incarnation of the Shinto Sun Goddess of the same name.
 

Mitsukara

Luna Crescens
Apr 1, 2017
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#33
Come to think of it, since you mentioned Zeus, it might be implied that Jupiter exists to some extent because Makoto's invocation for Supreme thunder involves saying "My Guardian Jupiter" (or "Mokusei" which is Japanese for Jupiter, but might imply the actual planet instead of the god? I'm not really sure).

I got the name Calyce from this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calyce_(mythology)

I hadn't considered the romance angle with the different loves of Selene, with Small Lady and Helios, but I definitely see what you mean. Hmm.

I was considering, for my anime continuity fanfic (which thus far doesn't involve the Galaxy Cauldron), having Princess Serenity's father (Queen Serenity's husband/lover) be named Hyperion, not because of any romance, but because he was said to be the father of Selene: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperion_(mythology) ...but that sort of doesn't account for Theia and has some other problems. I didn't want to use Zeus, though. I suppose I could go with pan, but that seems a little strange. I'll have to think about it.

(I suppose since there are multiple Selenes/Serenitys, then perhaps there could be multiple Hyperions, so the first Hyperion conceived the second with Theia, then the second Hyperion conceives Princess Serenity with Queen Serenity?? Or something. I need to think this through a bit more than I did previously.)

Though, I was also thinking of mixing up the myths a little (which it seems they did canonically with the Cronos/Kronus confusion)), specifically Thetis' unwilling marriage to Peleus. As I have it, Thetis was to be wed to Peleus unwillingly, but the marriage got interrupted back in Aethlius and Calyce's days as younger heroes before Aethlius retook the throne, and then later on Thetis meets Jadeite. Then again, I also have it that Thetis wasn't exactly the youma Thetis yet, but rather a human with some psychic abilities related to water... but that's me getting a little off topic.

[Edited by Rika-moth to fix the above links.]
 

MariaTenebre

Lumen Cinereum
Jul 22, 2009
5,063
418
165
#34
Mitsukara said:
Come to think of it, since you mentioned Zeus, it might be implied that Jupiter exists to some extent because Makoto's invocation for Supreme thunder involves saying "My Guardian Jupiter" (or "Mokusei" which is Japanese for Jupiter, but might imply the actual planet instead of the god? I'm not really sure).

I got the name Calyce from this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calyce_(mythology)

I hadn't considered the romance angle with the different loves of Selene, with Small Lady and Helios, but I definitely see what you mean. Hmm.

I was considering, for my anime continuity fanfic (which thus far doesn't involve the Galaxy Cauldron), having Princess Serenity's father (Queen Serenity's husband/lover) be named Hyperion, not because of any romance, but because he was said to be the father of Selene: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperion_(mythology) ...but that sort of doesn't account for Theia and has some other problems. I didn't want to use Zeus, though. I suppose I could go with pan, but that seems a little strange. I'll have to think about it.

(I suppose since there are multiple Selenes/Serenitys, then perhaps there could be multiple Hyperions, so the first Hyperion conceived the second with Theia, then the second Hyperion conceives Princess Serenity with Queen Serenity?? Or something. I need to think this through a bit more than I did previously.)

Though, I was also thinking of mixing up the myths a little (which it seems they did canonically with the Cronos/Kronus confusion)), specifically Thetis' unwilling marriage to Peleus. As I have it, Thetis was to be wed to Peleus unwillingly, but the marriage got interrupted back in Aethlius and Calyce's days as younger heroes before Aethlius retook the throne, and then later on Thetis meets Jadeite. Then again, I also have it that Thetis wasn't exactly the youma Thetis yet, but rather a human with some psychic abilities related to water... but that's me getting a little off topic.

[Edited by Rika-moth to fix the above links.]
I am aware that Calyce was the name of Endymion's mother in canon but I went personally with Gaia to tie him to the Earth Goddess.


I am interested though what past did you have for Thetis before she joined the Dark Kingdom and became a Youma. Interestingly enough in my fanfiction also based on the 90s anime I had that all of the Youma and basically denizens of the Dark Kingdom you see in the background in the Dark Kingdom were actually originally the Earth humans who rebelled against the Golden Kingdom and Silver Millennium and were also the people fighting on Beryl's side during the battle of the Silver Millennium. After they were sealed within the Earth Queen Metalia's taint transformed them into Youma. This was also the cause for say Nephrite's green blood and how Beryl was essentially made of a glass like structure like the witch on Dark Shadows.
 

Mitsukara

Luna Crescens
Apr 1, 2017
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#35
(Thank you, Rika-moth. Sorry for not checking to see if my links were broken.)

MariaTenebre said:
I am interested though what past did you have for Thetis before she joined the Dark Kingdom and became a Youma.
Basically, in my story the Golden Kingdom had some problems with the nobility getting corrupt and ambitious, resulting in Aethlius' father King Aeolus being assassinated. Prince Aethlius had to go on a bunch of adventures to restore peace to the kingdom and retake the throne, during which he met Calyce and she rescued him on various occasions, then they also met the young witch Beryl (Aethlius being about 28 and Beryl being about 14) who teamed up with them. This is a big part of how Beryl got so much trust in the kingdom before everything went wrong.

In one of their adventures, they fought the nobleman Peleus, who made arrangements to marry the unwilling Thetis (loosely inspired by the Greek myth of Thetis and Peleus' wedding), who was just slightly younger than Beryl. However, Aethlius and friends rescued Thetis and defeated Peleus, so the wedding never happened (I suppose Achilles doesn't exist in this timeline and the Trojan War stuff must've been completely different??).

After that Thetis and Beryl became close friends who confided in each other more than anyone else they knew at the time (especially when Beryl accidentally has a child and doesn't want anyone else to know, but that's a whole other part of the story). Thetis also has some latent psychic powers involving controlling water that she takes a while to learn how to properly use.

Over the years of peacetime under the rule of King Aethlus and Queen Calyce, she also becomes an engineer who helps repair and maintain Prince Endymion and the Shitennou's ship (when they're being heroes and having their own adventures), and develops a crush on Jadeite, but Jadeite is a very stiff and dry and formal sort of guy who's easily embarrassed and takes a while to even realize that she feels that way and then doesn't know how to respond even when he's interested. Essentially they spend a fair amount of time getting tongue-tied around one another instead of successfully dating.

Then, shall we say, some other stuff happens and things turn out poorly. I think we all know a few things about how that story ends...

Also, my story is set partly in the Golden Kingdom era, and partly in 31st century Crystal Tokyo (a century after the time Chibi-Usa was from during the show). So before everything, and after everything.

I had that all of the Youma and basically denizens of the Dark Kingdom you see in the background in the Dark Kingdom were actually originally the Earth humans who rebelled against the Golden Kingdom and Silver Millennium and were also the people fighting on Beryl's side during the battle of the Silver Millennium. After they were sealed within the Earth Queen Metalia's taint transformed them into Youma. This was also the cause for say Nephrite's green blood and how Beryl was essentially made of a glass like structure like the witch on Dark Shadows.
That's a pretty good explanation, it reminds me a little of some earlier fanfiction I saw like the Crystal Weaver Saga by E. Lidell (though that one's a little weird in some ways because it was written based on the DiC dub way way back in the day).

I wasn't specifically planning to address where the other Youma came from explicitly, aside from the DD Girls who I have a special story about (basically Queen Metallia makes them herself), and Thetis who joins Beryl and Metallia near the end and is transformed into a special Youma.

I think I heard of Dark Shadows on TV back when I was a kid, but I never saw any of it.