Sailor Moon: 167-172 (Negavision Fandub)

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Rebochan

Lumen Cinererum
Aug 29, 2003
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#41
boromonokli said:
I for one welcome the fandubs, as they bring some life into a community so in need of creative works. Because if fans can't get their stuff together and create good stuff on their own, it's a lost cause.
I'm sorry, but I highly doubt anything I say is going to make any fandubber suddenly go "Oh well, Rebo doesn't like my dub. Better pack up, delete the dubs, and remove all human memory of them." So expressing my extreme disapproval of fandubs is no different than any other crappy fanwork.

Fandubs just get under my skin because unlike fanfilms, fanart, or even fanfics (on concept!), one of them acts as a direct replacement of the original work. This one really isn't different - it's taking the only season of the show entirely unmolested by DiC's censorship, awful writing, and terrible music and deciding "Well, let's fix that because a bunch of people watched this as a kid and are nostalgic for crap now."

The fact that I can never find fandubs that don't play god with the source material against the will of the original artists, writers, directors, voice cast, etc. is just one big black mark against them.
 

Boro

Solaris Luna
May 19, 2012
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#42
Hmm. I see where you are coming from (merged finale for classic maybe), but based on my experiences in other franchises with fan works that mean to rival the original, it can even work out if the fandubbers show at least some respect in the way that they say "the original dub was good, but we disliked a few things about it" - where their personal preference is clearly noted.

In warhammer 40k there is an ongoing project by a bunch of neckbeards who were fed up by the 6th edition of warhammer 40k, so they made their own: the "teegee" or "waffles" edition. In that case there have been glaring issues with the source material, which kills any semblance of competitive balance, but the fans got together and are working actively to make the best possible 40k game ever made.

OK there is bias on my part, as I clearly dislike sixth edition, and have shown my slight preference to DiC (haven't watched an ep in 2 months). But I think you are taking it a bit further than necessary.

But as long as the f4l o negavision dub crews don't spill over here/their sites stroking their egos, I don't see the point of bashing.
 

Rebochan

Lumen Cinererum
Aug 29, 2003
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#43
Eh, I think in the case of tabletop, fan-mods are expected. Well, in gaming in general really - the entire point of games is that what you create is going directly into the hands of people who will do whatever they want with it. If some of the fans want to play Skyrim with Macho Man Randy Savage terrorizing the populace instead of a dragon, well, that's their right.

But in the case of static media like books or television shows, trying to replace something for no real reason except nostalgia is pretty offensive. I mean, artists have fought for decades to keep people from tampering with their works against their will, so when fans do it, it seems extremely disrespectful. I've never seen anyone, say, recut Nausicaa to match the Warriors of the Wind dub because "I grew up with it and I liked it as a kid!"

I mean, I have trouble with the DiC adherence of some of the fan film projects that people do, but at least those are fan made from the ground up and I can certainly respect their choices to make their personal work diverge from the work they're drawing inspiration from.
 

ChibiBoi

Aurorae Lunares
Jan 2, 2010
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#44
I can see where Rebochan is coming from. However, I don't feel it's necessary to get worked up over F4L's fandub, after all, DiC did much more atrocious things to the anime like cutting up episodes 45-46, sex changes, etc. stuff that Naoko did not approve. Let's also not forget Naoko Takeuchi also disliked the way TOEI handled the Starlights.
 

Rebochan

Lumen Cinererum
Aug 29, 2003
437
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#45
ChibiBoi said:
Let's also not forget Naoko Takeuchi also disliked the way TOEI handled the Starlights.
There were a few other elements she didn't like as much (pretty much all of which were in Stars), but in that scenario, at least she gave them the permission to adapt her story and got paid for it (and probably still does).
 

QueenNepy

Lumen Cinererum
Oct 21, 2003
301
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#46
fighter4luv said:
Rebochan said:
Brad said:
You should check out Fighter4Luv's fandub. They've done all the Nehelenia arc and the first ep after. http://www.starsfandub.com/ GREAT quality
...if by "great" you mean "Hey, do you really need Sailor Stars be censored, Americanized, and just as badly handled as the old dub?"

Dubbing Stockholm Syndrome at its finest.
Since we're not hacking up the episodes like DIC did, I wouldn't be so quick to compare us to the old days of severe censorship.
You kept Haruka and Michiru (Amara and Michelle) cousins and cut some amusing scenes. To be true to the NA dub? But...why? If you claim to be such fans of the series, stay true to the art.

My 2¢
 

ChibiBoi

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Jan 2, 2010
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#47
Rebochan said:
ChibiBoi said:
Let's also not forget Naoko Takeuchi also disliked the way TOEI handled the Starlights.
There were a few other elements she didn't like as much (pretty much all of which were in Stars), but in that scenario, at least she gave them the permission to adapt her story and got paid for it (and probably still does).
She must be sitting at home drinking her tea right now, not having to worry about working another day in her life LOL $$$$$$
 
#49
QueenNepy said:
You kept Haruka and Michiru (Amara and Michelle) cousins and cut some amusing scenes. To be true to the NA dub? But...why? If you claim to be such fans of the series, stay true to the art.
Who said we kept Amara and Michelle cousins? We've never discussed their relationship, and we want fans to make up their own mind ;)
Those edits were made in the early days of our production and we've changed a lot since then. Originally we were so fussed on making it just like the DiC dub, but now I've wanted to bring in my own creative decisions, so if you've seen episode 7 -a lot less had been removed :)
 

Rebochan

Lumen Cinererum
Aug 29, 2003
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#50
fighter4luv said:
Who said we kept Amara and Michelle cousins? We've never discussed their relationship, and we want fans to make up their own mind ;)
Why? Seriously, why? Why censor it for people who are on the internet and know this anyway? There's no network that's going to tell you to take the lesbians out, so removing dialog where they flirt with each other to try and downplay or remove their actual relationship is silly.

Even Negavision kept them gay.

Those edits were made in the early days of our production and we've changed a lot since then. Originally we were so fussed on making it just like the DiC dub, but now I've wanted to bring in my own creative decisions, so if you've seen episode 7 -a lot less had been removed :)
Yea, so, again, why remove footage? You said you took out "pointless" (in your words") footage to "make room" for Sailor Says, but why? There's no network mandated time slot you have to fit these episodes into, you don't "have" to cut anything. You bragged in one of these threads that you "only" took out 30 seconds as if it was some great achievement that you're leaving more of the episodes intact.
 

ChibiBoi

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Jan 2, 2010
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#51
Personally, I like the edits that F4L did because I can grab my DiC VHS tapes, watch that, grab my Sailor Moon S and SS dubbed VHS tapes, watch that, and then watch the F4L dub seamlessly without noticing that it was actually never released in North America haha that's one of the things i that was so impressed with this fandub: the amount of effort put into it is so great that if I didn't know Stars was never dubbed, I wouldn't have known this was only a fandub.

And as for Uranus x Neptune, let's not forget there was never any real dialogue that overtly suggested they were lesbians. So I feel like the fandub does a good job of keeping it with the original, while at the same time keeping it in continuity with the official dubs. And I applaud the fact that in F4L, they're not beating us over the head with the cousins thing.
 

Rebochan

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Aug 29, 2003
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#52
ChibiBoi said:
And as for Uranus x Neptune, let's not forget there was never any real dialogue that overtly suggested they were lesbians.
Neptune: You've been eating too many sweets!
Uranus: Save the scolding for bed.

This was rewritten in the Fighter4Luv dub. And that's just one sample of the dialog where they talk about their sex life.
 
May 30, 2012
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#53
Rebochan said:
ChibiBoi said:
And as for Uranus x Neptune, let's not forget there was never any real dialogue that overtly suggested they were lesbians.
Neptune: You've been eating too many sweets!
Uranus: Save the scolding for bed.

This was rewritten in the Fighter4Luv dub. And that's just one sample of the dialog where they talk about their sex life.
And there was also a line suggesting they were lesbians in the Sailor Stars episode; "Seiya and Usagi's Heart-Pounding Date".
I forgot what it was, but I knew it happened in that episode.
 

ChibiBoi

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Jan 2, 2010
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#54
Princess Saturn said:
Rebochan said:
ChibiBoi said:
And as for Uranus x Neptune, let's not forget there was never any real dialogue that overtly suggested they were lesbians.
Neptune: You've been eating too many sweets!
Uranus: Save the scolding for bed.

This was rewritten in the Fighter4Luv dub. And that's just one sample of the dialog where they talk about their sex life.
And there was also a line suggesting they were lesbians in the Sailor Stars episode; "Seiya and Usagi's Heart-Pounding Date".
I forgot what it was, but I knew it happened in that episode.
LOL watching the series as a kid, I never understood ANY of those lines haha I always thought "What does that even mean...??? Do people usually scold each other during bedtime in Japan? Is that the time reserved for scolding??"
 

matt0044

Solaris Luna
Apr 3, 2012
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#55
Rebochan said:
ChibiBoi said:
And as for Uranus x Neptune, let's not forget there was never any real dialogue that overtly suggested they were lesbians.
Neptune: You've been eating too many sweets!
Uranus: Save the scolding for bed.

This was rewritten in the Fighter4Luv dub. And that's just one sample of the dialog where they talk about their sex life.
Negavision simply wrote Uranus's line as "That's it. You're getting a spanking."

Kinky...
 

QueenNepy

Lumen Cinererum
Oct 21, 2003
301
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#58
Rebochan said:
ChibiBoi said:
And as for Uranus x Neptune, let's not forget there was never any real dialogue that overtly suggested they were lesbians.
Neptune: You've been eating too many sweets!
Uranus: Save the scolding for bed.

This was rewritten in the Fighter4Luv dub. And that's just one sample of the dialog where they talk about their sex life.
Exactly. Ahhhhh, if only you knew how many people still think Haruka and Michiru are cousins! It's ridiculous and it's groups like these that are perpetuating that myth. As a devoted H/M fan for >10 years, it truly makes me cringe.

(Last of my 2¢. I'm losing money.)
 

ChibiBoi

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Jan 2, 2010
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#59
PokemonBWDub said:
... So does anyone have the NegaVision episodes or not?
Check the link I posted on page 1. Episode 173. That's it

And as for everyone still complaining about the "cousins," like it or not, it has been written in the North American continuity. We can't pretend it never happened, so why deny it? F4L doesn't touch on the subject so his fandub isn't perpetuating anything FYI

My 2 cents.
 
Apr 20, 2012
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Texas
skelenator-rainbow.tumblr.com
#60
I still remember the Negavision Sailor Says that said something like "Today on Sailor Moon we learned that Amara and Michelle aren't cousins, but are actually lesbians." Best Sailor Says ever! :lol:

ChibiBoi said:
And as for everyone still complaining about the "cousins," like it or not, it has been written in the North American continuity. We can't pretend it never happened, so why deny it? F4L doesn't touch on the subject so his fandub isn't perpetuating anything FYI
The thing is though, why bother repeating it and other mistakes the adaptations made? And while the fandub does try to fit into North American continuity, it still doesn't completely since it's not a Cloverway style dub, and oddly reverts back to a lot of the Dicisms that stopped getting used in the S and SuperS dubs.