Seiya, Taiki, Yaten/Starlights - male or female?

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Gender of the Galaxy Defenders?

  • Male

    Votes: 7 19.4%
  • Female

    Votes: 24 66.7%
  • what are u talking about they're trannies

    Votes: 5 13.9%

  • Total voters
    36
A

Anonymous

#21
Katface said:
They are female.

Let's examine.

Starlights:
Anime: sex = female, gender = female
Manga: sex = female, gender = female

Three Lights:
Anime: sex = male, gender = male
Manga: sex = female, gender = male

They're women. Even when they are in the bodies of men, they are women. They have the mind and spirit of women, and although they don't identify as women in civilian forms (out of their own protection), their true forms are female and that is what I prefer.
I find it sad that all of these "SEIYA IS SOO HAWT AS A GUY SO THEY MUST BE GUYS." All they did was use some sort of disguise magic to temporarily change their bodies' appearance.
 
#24
Re: Seiya, Taiki, Yaten - male or female?

Tat said:
Nike-chan said:
You are referring to Seiya, Taiki and Yaten, so males in the anime, and I'd even go so far as to say, to an extent, in the manga.
I guess canon doesn't matter anymore :roll:
Canon does matter- and I adhere to it. Just because my interpretation is different to yours, doesn't make yours canon or mine not.
For the last fudging time Allow me to explain:
Anime: There is very little to dispute here. In civilian forms- they are men. Always. Their senshi forms are female. The only thing I will ever outrightly criticize in this particular debate is when people refer to, at the very least, their anime selves as 'she'. :neutral: Once again I will say, I can never understand why people find it easy to grasp cats and horses becoming human, or girls using magical powers to fight evil, but changing genders between forms is just too hard to understand. :roll: Sure Luna has a human form, and Chibiusa is in love with a flying horse, that's fine. But OMGZ Seiya turns into a gurl WTFFFFF iz he boi or gurrrrl WTF is just too hard to bear.
I'm not even talking about interpretation here- it's undeniable fact. They are men who turn into women. Don't even bother giving me the disguise thing, because in the anime we don't have evidence of what their real civilian forms are. Their senshi selves are women, but they have civilian, at least Earth forms as men, and always will. Get over it people. Much as some may want them to always be women, Toei didn't make it that way, and not comprehending this is an acute case of de-nile, IMO. Move on.

Manga: Here's the tricky part. Yes, technically, in the manga, these three are always women. It's fine if this is what you perceive them as, and it's completely canon. For those who are interested, however, I see things thus (the following is my personal opinion):
Me from previous post said:
It is my firm opinion that the manga Seiya was adapted to a masculine image,and drawn bishoujo style by Naoko. Thus, I interpret him as a masculine character, along with the other two. You are within your rights to not do so, but, manga is drawn as an artform, open to individual interpretation, and there is no rule book detailing how to perceive art- especially that which is presented rather ambiguously.
So- the fact that they are drawn as and act like men, I tend to retain my perception of them as such. I know that this is not so, but because Naoko herself presents Seiya as a romantic protagonist and one of very masculine appearance and behaviour, aside from the factual statement on their gender, there is little else to affirm it. I do not necessarily interpret their manga selves as males, but rather more so as masculine characters. By default, I do still refer to them as 'he'. To me, using the word 'she' in reference to them (civilian forms) is as odd as using it in reference to my own father or grandfather. It's sounds, to me, a little obscene.

The Starlights, their senshi forms- female all the way. I got that part. I am also aware that they will likely be females on Kinmoku, too. But then again, they will probably not even have the names Seiya, Yaten and Taiki anymore. If they do, then I assume they retain the male physical form, also, because those two things tie in together. Either way, Taiki, Seiya and Yaten will always be male- they are forms.

I'm really getting sick of wasting my breath on this topic, over and over. It's well worn out. IMO, it's not a particularly difficult situation, but it seems to conflict with areas of peoples psych, and addle their brains- like the whole "Senshi can't be men" idea. As senshi, they aren't men, and it all comes down to people refusing to grasp this facet of their nature. Also- they're aliens. That makes them cooler than us, and more flexible in these matters. :P
 

Katface

Lapis Lunaris
Jan 19, 2010
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#25
I think people who argue to the death that they are men are missing the point of the Starlights completely, perhaps out of their own heterosexual and phallocentric interests. They also don't have a clear grasp on what exactly is a woman.

The manga Three Lights being masculine characters does not make them men. To think that you're only a woman if you follow the gender roles and are strictly feminine in appearance and act... that's just narrow minded.

As much as the Starlights may be aliens, they clearly retain a human's secondary sexual characteristics. But again, switching between the sexes does not change that they are actually women underneath it all.

I wish the anime hadn't made them have men's bodies. Then there wouldn't be topless Seiya fanservice (and I am a huge Seiya fan, believe me) for fangirls to drool mindlessly over. Their voice actresses did a fine job of making their voices deep while in civilian form, they didn't have to take their clothes off to prove they had men's bodies. It's disappointing, they could have been so much better in the anime.
 
#26
Katface said:
I think people who argue to the death that they are men are missing the point of the Starlights completely, perhaps out of their own heterosexual and phallocentric interests. They also don't have a clear grasp on what exactly is a woman.
I am a woman/girl, so I more or less understand what one is. :wink: As for 'missing the point'- I'm not. I get that they were originally meant to be crossdressing women, takarazuka style. Oh well.
Katface said:
The manga Three Lights being masculine characters does not make them men. To think that you're only a woman if you follow the gender roles and are strictly feminine in appearance and act... that's just narrow minded.
I know it doesn't make them men- but my perception of them is as such. That's how they are drawn and presented- as masculine characters. Just like if it turned out Usagi or even Haruka was a man (lol) I would still say 'she', because that is how the character is presented. It's my personal opinion, and I don't strive to prove it correct to anyone else, since technically you are right.
As for the second thing- I don't think that at all. I'm talking about manga here- which is art, and not reality. I think you extrapolated my words a bit to much.
Katface said:
But again, switching between the sexes does not change that they are actually women underneath it all.
What is left that is not a man? Body, behaviour, voice, expressions, orientation? It's like those people who have the operations onthemselves to become another gender- are they really that gender, or the gender they were born with? It's a philosophical question, but with the Starlights, I believe that it is the gender they identify with more, and Seiya, at least, testifies that his is male.
Katface said:
It's disappointing, they could have been so much better in the anime.
I disagree. I understand that you in your personal taste would have preferred them as females all the time, and not to have been topless men, but not everyone feels that way. :P Also, the physically changing gender thing makes them interesting.
 
Jun 6, 2006
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NJ
#28
Even in the anime I consider the Starlights truly female. They just went the extra mile in disgusing themselves in the anime. :P

Although Seiya is pretty hot as a girl AND a guy, but Taiki meets an ugly woman.
 
Sep 19, 2010
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Crystal Tokyo
#29
Manga: Women.

Anime: Women who disguise themselves with the physical appearance of men's bodies while on Earth as civilians, and plainly women while in senshi form.

Fact, cut and dry. :oh:

Nike-chan is wrong, but what's new? :ohmy:
 

Sabrblade

Luna Crescens
Sep 13, 2009
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#31
This thread has gotten me curious about something. We know that the anime had the Stalights able to take on physical male form as the civilian Three Lights on Earth. Well, suppose something happened to damage and temporarily shut down ALL of their magical abilities, rendering them completely powerless and in a state where neither their disguising abilites (which enable them to switch between female and male forms) nor their Senshi abilities (which enable them to both henshin into sailor fuku bishojo senshi and use attacks) could work. What sort of form do you all think they would be in during this brief time?
 

Neo Moonlight

Lumen Cinereum
Dec 7, 2009
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#32
Sabrblade said:
This thread has gotten me curious about something. We know that the anime had the Stalights able to take on physical male form as the civilian Three Lights on Earth. Well, suppose something happened to damage and temporarily shut down ALL of their magical abilities, rendering them completely powerless and in a state where neither their disguising abilites (which enable them to switch between female and male forms) nor their Senshi abilities (which enable them to both henshin into sailor fuku bishojo senshi and use attacks) could work. What sort of form do you all think they would be in during this brief time?
They would probably be caught off guard if such a thing happened, so they'd probably be men.

And even if they weren't caught off guard, they'd probably stay as men anyway, so they can continue their Three Lights act to find Kakyuu.
 

Sabrblade

Luna Crescens
Sep 13, 2009
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#33
Neo Moonlight said:
Sabrblade said:
This thread has gotten me curious about something. We know that the anime had the Stalights able to take on physical male form as the civilian Three Lights on Earth. Well, suppose something happened to damage and temporarily shut down ALL of their magical abilities, rendering them completely powerless and in a state where neither their disguising abilites (which enable them to switch between female and male forms) nor their Senshi abilities (which enable them to both henshin into sailor fuku bishojo senshi and use attacks) could work. What sort of form do you all think they would be in during this brief time?
They would probably be caught off guard if such a thing happened, so they'd probably be men.

And even if they weren't caught off guard, they'd probably stay as men anyway, so they can continue their Three Lights act to find Kakyuu.
I mean, if they couldn't choose what form to be reduced to.
 
#35
Sabrblade said:
Neo Moonlight said:
Sabrblade said:
This thread has gotten me curious about something. We know that the anime had the Stalights able to take on physical male form as the civilian Three Lights on Earth. Well, suppose something happened to damage and temporarily shut down ALL of their magical abilities, rendering them completely powerless and in a state where neither their disguising abilites (which enable them to switch between female and male forms) nor their Senshi abilities (which enable them to both henshin into sailor fuku bishojo senshi and use attacks) could work. What sort of form do you all think they would be in during this brief time?
They would probably be caught off guard if such a thing happened, so they'd probably be men.

And even if they weren't caught off guard, they'd probably stay as men anyway, so they can continue their Three Lights act to find Kakyuu.
I mean, if they couldn't choose what form to be reduced to.
Yes, yes, how very clever of you. I see the point you are attempting to make. But you know what? Male. Since you are talking about the anime, in which, their civilian form on Earth is always male. So even if they had no disguise or henshin powers, they would revert to civilian form anyway, which is male. In the anime, whether or not their true civilian form is male or not was never disproven. In the manga their civilian form was female, but we never even saw what they are really like un-transformed, except their Earth, male, forms.
Prince Rose said:
what do ya expect he's a chiba
:wink: He's still sore from our previous conversations, where I may have been a little harsh when I called his bluff. :o
 

Sabrblade

Luna Crescens
Sep 13, 2009
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#36
Nike-chan said:
Yes, yes, how very clever of you. I see the point you are attempting to make. But you know what? Male. Since you are talking about the anime, in which, their civilian form on Earth is always male. So even if they had no disguise or henshin powers, they would revert to civilian form anyway, which is male. In the anime, whether or not their true civilian form is male or not was never disproven. In the manga their civilian form was female, but we never even saw what they are really like un-transformed, except their Earth, male, forms.
What if they revert to their non-powered Kinmokuseijin forms (whatever those may be)?
 
#37
Sabrblade said:
What if they revert to their non-powered Kinmokuseijin forms (whatever those may be)?
As I said above- in the anime- we don't know. Nothing is proven nor disproven. And I don't even know if it's possible to revert to their 'Kinmokuseijin' forms on Earth.
 
Sep 19, 2010
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Crystal Tokyo
#39
Sabrblade said:
This thread has gotten me curious about something. We know that the anime had the Stalights able to take on physical male form as the civilian Three Lights on Earth. Well, suppose something happened to damage and temporarily shut down ALL of their magical abilities, rendering them completely powerless and in a state where neither their disguising abilites (which enable them to switch between female and male forms) nor their Senshi abilities (which enable them to both henshin into sailor fuku bishojo senshi and use attacks) could work. What sort of form do you all think they would be in during this brief time?
They'd be women in that sort of situation. Their powers allow them to transform into men, so no powers means they'd be in their true form as women.