The downfall of J-pop? How the AKBG's biz model & culture get adapted in China

[Rika-Chicchi]

^ As you're a fan of them I can totally understand that.

I do have been largely aware of what you said in the preceding post, but the issue I've raised on this thread is essentially a quality issue rather than a monetary revenue one (which does also have fallen dramatically industry-overall in the recent years or even the last decade when compared to those J-pop heydays before it), hence the fact that the XXX48s sell, which they do, is actually in itself the problem.

I'm not saying that they, nor the concepts behind them, are all bad, of course (I've actually linked several of their music clips myself on the page linked in my sig below ), but their recent accelerating slip into the cheap sexual appeal dept. (not just the SDNs, but the AKBs, too!) or even lolicon dept. (such as the HKTs) does look a bit unappetizing/worrying to me & even that gravure idol expert-fan I replied to in the OP quote, as well as some Japanese themselves.

I agree that it's certainly a fad, but like what I've said above, I just hope it wouldn't be a prelude to an even worse one after its demise, but instead a big turnaround renaissance in the J-pop scene.

 

[Yen]

Why has no one mentioned Koda Kumi yet? She's been doing the whole overtly sexualized thing for nearly 10 years and she's on the top 50 best selling Japanese artists of all time. I don't think being sexually appealing is any indication of the downfall of j-pop. And I think people are being way too conservative about the issue of sexuality.

You also have to understand sales in general have been in decline for some time, especially in Japan. These days, Ayumi Hamasaki still tops charts but she's only selling about 100,000 copies the first week. 10 years ago, she was breaking 1 mill the first week.

 

[Rika-Chicchi]

Why has no one mentioned Koda Kumi yet? She's been doing the whole overtly sexualized thing for nearly 10 years and she's on the top 50 best selling Japanese artists of all time. I don't think being sexually appealing is any indication of the downfall of j-pop. And I think people are being way too conservative about the issue of sexuality.

As I've already said above, the problem isn't the use of sex as a theme itself, but the way they use it. It has nothing to do w/ how much flesh is exposed either - hypothetically, I'd even have no problem in seeing full nudity on a PV if it's done in a classy, tasteful way, & the artist & PV aren't targeted at (& the artist not affiliated in any way to a group targeted at) a very young or general audience. Koda, whom I also like, & her image are always targeted at a mature, adult audience, & she's never positioned herself as a national idol like the Morning Musume or, currently, the XXX48s.

You also have to understand sales in general have been in decline for some time, especially in Japan. These days, Ayumi Hamasaki still tops charts but she's only selling about 100,000 copies the first week. 10 years ago, she was breaking 1 mill the first week.

That's actually what I referred to in my remark about monetary revenue in the preceding post.

 

[Yen]

Then I clearly need to read better. My apologies

Koda, whom I also like, & her image are always targeted at a mature, adult audience, & she's never positioned herself as a national idol like the Morning Musume or, currently, the XXX48s.

I always thought those idol groups were targeting the otaku crowd: those obsessive basement dweller types that have odd fetishes such as school girls, lolis, and moe. Either way, groups like Morning Musume and AKB48 are a mockery to music. They are nothing more than a product, the girls have no talent, are robots to the industry, have no part in the composition or lyrics, and are swapped out every few years and generally become nothing after that. I wouldn't take either group or groups like them seriously. They're fads built by the industry in an attempt to cash out with the schoolgirl fetish.

But in spite of all of that, the J-pop hierarchy has a lot of real talent at the top (Ayu, Kumi, Namie Amuro, Hikki if she ever comes back from Hiatus, and plenty more) and I don't think it'll be crashing any time soon.

 

[Rika-Chicchi]

Koda, whom I also like, & her image are always targeted at a mature, adult audience, & she's never positioned herself as a national idol like the Morning Musume or, currently, the XXX48s.

I always thought those idol groups were targeting the otaku crowd: those obsessive basement dweller types that have odd fetishes such as school girls, lolis, and moe.

That's also true ("AKB" stands for Akihabara, the sacred site of otaku nowadays & where AKB48 originated - they & their sister groups still perform at their theater there), but they're also targeted at the general public after they've gone mainstream, & in any case the line between otaku culture & youngster culture is blurring fast nowadays, as many aspects of otaku culture have also entered into mainstream culture.

Either way, groups like Morning Musume and AKB48 are a mockery to music. They are nothing more than a product, the girls have no talent, are robots to the industry, have no part in the composition or lyrics, and are swapped out every few years and generally become nothing after that. I wouldn't take either group or groups like them seriously. They're fads built by the industry in an attempt to cash out with the schoolgirl fetish.

Agreed to all that, but the problem is that, like what I said above, they've now crossed over into the mainstream w/ their members acting in ordinary dramas/movies & appearing on CMs of general products, their merchandise targeted at the whole nation, etc. So it's now concerning w/ the nation instead of just the weirdos, unless the entire nation has become the weirdos.

[EDIT]

But in spite of all of that, the J-pop hierarchy has a lot of real talent at the top (Ayu, Kumi, Namie Amuro, Hikki if she ever comes back from Hiatus, and plenty more) and I don't think it'll be crashing any time soon.

Nor do I - I'm just seeing some worrying trends which may or may not turn worse.

 

[Yen]

There are all sorts of gimmicky groups like this everywhere, though. Soon, they'll fade back into obscurity.

Take the American pop group, The Pussycat Dolls. They were a popular thing maybe 5 years ago. There was no real leader, they were controlled by their label in every aspect, the girls were swapped out every so often, and wore as little as possible on stage without being cited for public indecency. Fast-forward to now, nobody remembers a damn thing about them. AKB48 will end up the same way.

 

[SailorGucci]

I find this quit sad, especially for Japanese artist who can actually sing, have talent and write their own stuff and aren't the only one ideal of beauty AKB48 shows(light skin, 92 lbs, big eyed) and AKB48 and all their subgroups alot of them have been topping the charts in 2011 so they have made it to mainstream their in commercials. dramas and etc and I read somewhere about their fans alot of them arent just older men but both young boys and girls, and what kind of message is AKB48 sending to them?
and that video you posted Rika-Chicchi I agree it wanst classy sexy at all it was pretty trashy and tasteless


it just suprises me how people can get so many 1's on a music chart yet can't sing and so much recognition when their really not anything

 

[Rika-Chicchi]

There are all sorts of gimmicky groups like this everywhere, though. Soon, they'll fade back into obscurity.

Take the American pop group, The Pussycat Dolls. They were a popular thing maybe 5 years ago. There was no real leader, they were controlled by their label in every aspect, the girls were swapped out every so often, and wore as little as possible on stage without being cited for public indecency. Fast-forward to now, nobody remembers a damn thing about them. AKB48 will end up the same way.

They've got one significant thing I've found different from those we've-seen-all-too-often gimmicky groups you mentioned, tho - even after their demise, which I suspect won't happen anytime soon, they could've already steered J-pop to a direction modeled on them, if not even worse. Many gimmicky groups have also appeared & then disappeared (quickly) in the J-pop scene throughout the decades, but when you see major national press like Asahi Shimbun devoting a whole page discussing the AKB48 phenomenon, & even international press like International Herald Tribune (or Financial Times - can't remember ATM) also analyzing it (in an albeit smaller article space), you know there's some important difference this time.

I find this quit sad, especially for Japanese artist who can actually sing, have talent and write their own stuff and aren't the only one ideal of beauty AKB48 shows(light skin, 92 lbs, big eyed) and AKB48 and all their subgroups alot of them have been topping the charts in 2011 so they have made it to mainstream their in commercials. dramas and etc and I read somewhere about their fans alot of them arent just older men but both young boys and girls, and what kind of message is AKB48 sending to them?

They've already become national idols representing the country, like Morning Musume in the past, which've now been eclipsed by them, even tho the latter were initially (albeit incorrectly) seen as a copycat/bootleg of the former. Some of their members have also been sent to my country to rally for donations for the Mar. quake/tsunami in northeast Japan last year.

it just suprises me how people can get so many 1's on a music chart yet can't sing and so much recognition when their really not anything

I've to admit that they & their concept do make good business sense, tho, as they're evidently a thriving multimedia business nowadays.

 

[Yen]

Not to fear. The leading ladies of J-Pop will keep everything in check ^____^;

 

[Rika-Chicchi]

Not to fear. The leading ladies of J-Pop will keep everything in check ^____^;

I hope so, but the AKB girls, as a group, might become the de facto leading ladies of J-pop, if not already so.

 

[Yen]

Not to fear. The leading ladies of J-Pop will keep everything in check ^____^;

I hope so, but the AKB girls, as a group, might become the de facto leading ladies of J-pop, if not already so.

P'shaw, they have to dethrone the reigning queen, Ayumi Hamasaki first, and uh, not happening.

 

[Rika-Chicchi]

Not to fear. The leading ladies of J-Pop will keep everything in check ^____^;

I hope so, but the AKB girls, as a group, might become the de facto leading ladies of J-pop, if not already so.

P'shaw, they have to dethrone the reigning queen, Ayumi Hamasaki first, and uh, not happening.

OK, then.

[EDIT]
BTW, a rare clip of the J-pop queen rendering a really old oldie w/ Shimatani Hitomi:

http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/sY9IG6YACYI/

^ She almost looks like Usagi.

 

[Yen]

I hope so, but the AKB girls, as a group, might become the de facto leading ladies of J-pop, if not already so.

P'shaw, they have to dethrone the reigning queen, Ayumi Hamasaki first, and uh, not happening.

OK, then.

[EDIT]
BTW, a rare clip of the J-pop queen rendering a really old oldie w/ Shimatani Hitomi:

http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/sY9IG6YACYI/

^ She almost looks like Usagi.

TBH, I think Ayu would make a better Minako <3

 

[Rika-Chicchi]

P'shaw, they have to dethrone the reigning queen, Ayumi Hamasaki first, and uh, not happening.

OK, then.

[EDIT]
BTW, a rare clip of the J-pop queen rendering a really old oldie w/ Shimatani Hitomi:

http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/sY9IG6YACYI/

^ She almost looks like Usagi.

TBH, I think Ayu would make a better Minako <3

Can't imagine her in Minako's hairstyle, tho (but then I also couldn't imagine her in Usagi's twin odango as seen in the above clip l o l ) - maybe someone should photoshop one to see how it'd look.

 

[Yen]

OK, then.

[EDIT]
BTW, a rare clip of the J-pop queen rendering a really old oldie w/ Shimatani Hitomi:

http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/sY9IG6YACYI/

^ She almost looks like Usagi.

TBH, I think Ayu would make a better Minako <3

Can't imagine her in Minako's hairstyle, tho (but then I also couldn't imagine her in Usagi's twin odango as seen in the above clip l o l ) - maybe someone should photoshop one to see how it'd look.

She's had long blonde hair before though :3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2TQUlVfrjo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mx3ouTYJ ... re=related

and the best example would be her hair from the Asia Tour 2007, but I cant get a clear image because my video of that concert is too low-res Here's the best I can do

http://i.imgur.com/YHiVt.png

Besides, her voice isn't really the right pitch for Usagi. It's more at the same pitch of Minako's though

 

[SailorGucci]

Love Ayu's style! :love:

That reminds me guys do we have a thread for jpop or Japanese music in general? That would be really cool if we did!

 

[Echelon9]

J-Pop isn't much different from pop music in America, at least culture wise. J-Pop icons come and go at the blink of an eye, just like in America. Anyone remember Hanson? They were the equivalent of the Jonas Brothers when I was 7.

The only J-Pop artists that I know are Daisy x Daisy and Riyu Kosaka, and both of them are more talented than most of the new age pop singers here in the States.

 

[Rika-Chicchi]

TBH, I think Ayu would make a better Minako <3

Can't imagine her in Minako's hairstyle, tho (but then I also couldn't imagine her in Usagi's twin odango as seen in the above clip l o l ) - maybe someone should photoshop one to see how it'd look.

She's had long blonde hair before though :3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2TQUlVfrjo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mx3ouTYJ ... re=related

and the best example would be her hair from the Asia Tour 2007, but I cant get a clear image because my video of that concert is too low-res Here's the best I can do

http://i.imgur.com/YHiVt.png

I've always known she's had long hair, of course - what I was specifically referring to, but didn't state explicitly, is that giant red ribbon.

That reminds me guys do we have a thread for jpop or Japanese music in general? That would be really cool if we did!

I think so (as I recall), but you gotta search for it.

J-Pop isn't much different from pop music in America, at least culture wise. J-Pop icons come and go at the blink of an eye, just like in America.

Some have been staying active for decades, tho, & several of them have even come back after a pretty long hiatus, too.

Anyone remember Hanson?

I do.

 

[Yen]

I've always known she's had long hair, of course - what I was specifically referring to, but didn't state explicitly, is that giant red ribbon.

Oooooh, you mean this:

Do I get a cookie? :3

 

[Rika-Chicchi]

^

Now that's the idol Minako.

Considering that clip I posted above & this pic, maybe she's even a closet Sailor Moon fan.